Everybody panic! Goldman Sachs looses doomsday machine!

[guartz]

Actually, now that i think about it. We never discussed how the bailout was a complete and utter failure and how it would be more accurate to say that it was orchestrated by the financial sector to make out like bandits.

So business as usual.

I have a lot of gripes with the media, what you mention is just one of them.

Say like, the Iraq war. Plenty of coverage there. Was it the right decision? is about as critical the MSM will get, nobody discusses whether it was gosh, illegal or moral.


edit:

Here is a nice contrast though, look at the recent reportings of how China is putting down the riots. "Heavy Handed", "Brutal", "Oppressive". No such language was used in the Iraq war.

[Kuya]

I wonder though, is Goldman just trying to trike early at some competitor or are they hiding something else? This story is highly unusual. And they must have known that this would make them look bad. Either they are just imbeciles, which considering what they did with the bailout i am inclined to disagree with, or they are just playing a game of checkers.

edit: not to mention the part about the FBI responding within light speed. A sign, that, though i don't know if the posters here are aware of it or to what degree they are aware of it, Goldman is incredibly close to the US government. Too close. So close that it might entail a broken social contract.

[guartz]

The way I understand Kuya, it made story because of what the lawyer said. GS might have just honestly wanted the program for themselves only.

[Kuya]

I don't know how reliable this is, as it essentially a conspiracy theory, even though Goldman's behaviour is strange. The bold is also annoying:

**FLASH** Goldman Code Theft BOMBSHELL? - The Market Ticker

Something really ugly popped up on Daily Kos yesterday late in the afternoon.....

...GS, through access to the system as a result of their special gov't perks, was/is able to read the data on trades before it's committed, and place their own buys or sells accordingly in that brief moment, thus allowing them to essentially steal buttloads of money every day from the rest of the punters world.

Two things come out of this:

1. If true, this should be highly illegal, and would, in any sane country result in something like what happened to Arthur Andersen...

(2. ... is way off point....)

God help Goldman if this is true and the government goes after them. This would constitute massive unlawful activity. Indeed, the allegation is that Goldman alone was given this access!

It would mean that Goldman was able to "see" transaction order flow - bid, offer, and execute messages - before they were committed in the transaction stream. Such a "SNIFF" would be COMPLETELY UNDETECTABLE by the sender or recipient of the message.

The implication of this would be that they would be able to front-run any transaction where the data was visible to them, thereby effectively "stealing pennies" from each transaction they were able to front-run.

Again: I have absolutely nothing on the content of the allegedly-stolen code nor can I validate the claim made that Goldman had "special network access." Nothing. All I have to go on with regards to "market manipulation" (which such a program would be, writ large!) is the statement of the US Attorney that I cited in my earlier Ticke

This may be nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theory put out by someone at Daily Kos. But consider the following:

The last few days the the market has traded "organically." I and many other market participants have noted that prior to the week before July 4th the market had been acting "very odd" - normal correlations between interest rate, foreign exchange the the stock markets had been on "tilt" for the previous couple of months, with the amount of "tiltage" increasing dramatically in the last three or four weeks. In fact, many of my usual indicators that I use for daytrading had become completely useless. Suddenly, just before the July 4the weekend, everything started correlating normally again. I have no explanation for this "light-switch" change but it aligned almost exactly with the day the NYSE had "computer problems" and extended trading by 15 minutes. Was there a configuration change made to their networking infrastructure, one asks?

Zerohedge's information, if you believe it, seems to point toward some sort of distortion. The cite above claims statistically "as likely as an asteroid hitting earth it is not true" proof of distortion in the market. I have not analyzed the data to independently validate that conclusion, but even if the odds of these "effects" in the market being random chance are only as good as getting hit by a tornado this afternoon......

It would seem that investigating it would be the sensible thing to do. Assuming all of this is not just Goldman hate.

[Minions]

PACKETBOTS AT WORK. On a much bigger scale.

[Plow]

Say like, the Iraq war. Plenty of coverage there. Was it the right decision? is about as critical the MSM will get, nobody discusses whether it was gosh, illegal or moral.

I disagree, there was *tons* of this kind of discussion, and, sadly, the limiting factors to that discussion were somewhat (arguably, for sure) defensible.


With this the only person that will even begin to call them out on the whole "Hey this is an incredibly shitty way for people to behave" is Jon Stewart, and they'd never let him remotely near the people that actually matter in this sector.

[Priran]

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2434/strangelove.jpg

[guartz]

I disagree, there was *tons* of this kind of discussion, and, sadly, the limiting factors to that discussion were somewhat (arguably, for sure) defensible.

Not in American MSM. British? Sure, a few soundbites/articles. But American? Not a squeak, even still.



Kuya,

I have no doubt that GS manipulates the stock market, just not sure how, and that whole sniffing thing just sounds a little useless. That's just not how stock market works.

[Kuya]

It would be easily detectable anyway, so i doubt it's that.

[Plow]

Not in American MSM. British? Sure, a few soundbites/articles. But American? Not a squeak, even still.

I barely even watch T.V. and I've seen debates on the topic of the legality of the Iraq war many times on the major networks, let alone the morality.

[Minions]

Every time I see this thread I hope its about Rube Goldberg machines. Still would be awesome to harness that power for your own profit, so much backhanded shit going on these days, with all the Ponzi Schemes and such coming to light.

[Tyr]

I didn't quite get why the guy was imprisoned in the first place, if it's all "speculation?"

Did they prove he uploaded it to Germany? I thought that, too, was part of the speculation. $750,000 bond...?

EDIT: nvm, missed "theft charges."

[guartz]

I barely even watch T.V. and I've seen debates on the topic of the legality of the Iraq war many times on the major networks, let alone the morality.

I watch the news a lot, and to be honest, I haven't heard anything, so I just assumed it's not there. By chance, would you happen to have any articles or anything?

Just so I know you are not making it up.

[Kuya]

Was it really a war? It was my understanding that the Senate hasn't declared a war since the 40s.

[guartz]

Was it really a war? It was my understanding that the Senate hasn't declared a war since the 40s.

IF you recall, senate gave war rights to the president... which I just remembered expired in jan, 2009..


hmmmmm

how does that work?

[Pirian]

What is it supposed to be? Some advanced day trading AI that watches everything at once and instantly buys when something starts to go up, and sells when something starts go down? Or something else?

I don't see what's wrong with it, as long as its individual actions are legal. That is, if a person with superhuman computational power and quick reflexes could do the same thing using the services that are already in place to buy/sell/etc. then why are they concerned? If it gives someone an advantage because they're using an AI to make better decisions, then it just means they're using the system in the most efficient way possible and everyone else better step up their game.

Unless the stock system was set up assuming, and counting on, people failing so others could succeed, rather than as a way to get businesses going faster and stimulate economy with more/better investment opportunities.

This pretty much.

To be honest I'm not sure if what Goldman Sachs has is all that different from what most brokerage services has as far as their trading execution services. The reason they would be more harmful with this software, than lets say OptionsXpress, is because they have a much larger client base and therefore they need to have access to service much more people all at once.

I use to use Goldman Sachs trading service because they could usually fill up to 20-30 contracts almost instantly without them giving it to a market maker and me getting a partial fill on the order.

Unless the secret program that was stolen was something along the lines of what Kuya posted, I doubt much will come of this. Honestly though, unless I'm missing something here, I would think they would try and keep it as quiet as possible if it was something like that, and not brought up formal charges against the guy who stole it.

[Kuya]

IF you recall, senate gave war rights to the president... which I just remembered expired in jan, 2009..


hmmmmm

how does that work?

Well isn't that just like the Senate.

edit: are you sure they gave the pres the right to declare war? I'm pretty sure that is a constitutional duty of the Senate and in order to change that the Constitution would have to be changed.

[guartz]

Well isn't that just like the Senate.

edit: are you sure they gave the pres the right to declare war? I'm pretty sure that is a constitutional duty of the Senate and in order to change that the Constitution would have to be changed.

yea, something like that,
but it was limited, hence the expiration date... so I'm sure something was passed recently to let the war continue... maybe in the bailout something?

googling nothing yet

[Kuya]

Think it had something to do with increasing the months the pres could use the military without a formal declaration of war, but i thought the Senate never actually declared war.

[Jer]

The U.S. has went to war several times in the past couple of decades. However, we haven't declared war since the second World War.