Marwa el-Sherbini, "Headscarf Martyr"

[Elvis]

I can understand the civilian POV and the bystander effect.

And I agree w/ Zoolander about the guards. This was criminal negligence on their part.

[Faris]

can you please link me to the article of this young girl stoning cus she got raped.

i did my "google" didnt find anything, but the closest match was the same incident happening in somalia..

[Elvis]

Well, in Saudi Arabia, a girl was sentenced to 90 lashes for being a victim of gang-rape.

Saudi court ups punishment for gang-rape victim - CNN.com

[Selim]

Hmm I'm actually living in Dresden and being a muslim myself I can't say that I'm (directly) confronted with racism over here a whole lot. Given I usually hang out in the city and not the suburbs, where right-wing parties are usually a lot more successful and racist organizations/incidents with racist motivation are a lot more common.
Still I surely wouldn't say that this incident is representative for the general sentiment of people living here. While you can't deny that there is a rising islamophobic notion it's almost sad that one particular event can get so much political importance.

Right-wing activities in Dresden usually peak on the anniversary of the bombing of Dresden during WWII and neo nazis all across the country gather in a demonstration, reminiscing of the innocent people dieing in what they call a war crime. 3 years ago it maxed at around 5.000 demonstrants and this year just the local counter demo by students easily reached over 10.000 people. They aren't exactly greeted peacefully or accepted by the majority of the people or anything.

It's terrible that she had to die, especially the way it happened, being pregnant and in front of her kids, being stabbed like that. But if you read about the guy who did it, you will pretty easily understand that he was a lunatic more than anything with a migration background himself, not being well integrated or educated and certainly not represantative for the majority of people.

You can't deny that there's still a lot of problems with people with that kind of mentality, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not the general consensus over here and people don't take it with at least some sort of opposition.
Related video from a anti-fa demonstration a few years ago

[Tyr]

At no point did I insinuate that this person carried with him the sentiments of a populace - that'd be playing a double standard given that I identify these so-called "Muslim" terrorists as nothing short of straight-jacket lunatics as well.

(This isn't to say you accused me of making that claim, but I'm just trying to make that clear)

There are plenty of crazies in this world, and its unfortunate that a number of people still take one idiot's disgraceful, violent, atrocious acts as the perspective of an entire population. We're just playing with variables when we say "a man in Germany" versus "a man in Afghanistan."

It goes back to, again, how many people in the West and Middle East demonize each other, and at many instances, the respective governments make no real effort to stunt such rhetoric.

[Faris]

it's a source of distress to see incidents of stoning, especially when the girl was a victim of rape

choose your words carefully next time

[Selim]

Yeah, I wasn't accusing you, but more referring to the article you linked about the "fury at west's islamophobia", which makes it pretty clear that at least the people in Egypt read more into the incident and project this guys behaviour on the populace. Wasn't trying to play it down either, just think that the outrage is exaggerating and gets politically abused, trying to make her a "martyr".

But I can see where you're coming from. It's probably not much different when some german tourists gets hijacked in Egypt and the whole country is in outrage and you get the feeling like some people think you might have done it yourself.

[Tyr]

choose your words carefully next time

because 6 months in prison and 200 lashes after being the victim of gang rape is still acceptable?

The judges more than doubled the punishment for the victim because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media," according to a source quoted by Arab News, an English-language Middle Eastern daily newspaper.

Judge Saad al-Muhanna from the Qatif General Court also barred al-Lahim from defending his client and revoked his law license, al-Lahim said. The attorney has been ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice next month.

Because that's justice, right? Always remember my friend, what goes around, comes around.


Again, a few bad apples spoil the bunch. It's sad that this is the face most people think is "Islam."

[Faris]

oh trust me, i know about the ignorance/corruption some of these judges have (now that's extremism, corruption, nepotism which the middle east suffers a lot from). i was talking about the stoning of a raped woman in saudi...which never occured; that's all.

[Vekta]

Not Saudi but heres another one for you to claim never occurred.

Al Jazeera English - Africa - Somali fighters stone 'rape victim'

theres 1000 people who really do deserve the gas chamber.

[Klaatu]

At no point did I insinuate that this person carried with him the sentiments of a populace - that'd be playing a double standard given that I identify these so-called "Muslim" terrorists as nothing short of straight-jacket lunatics as well.

You may not have, but stating he was "Russian" in article, automatically, whether people like it or not, places a seed of mistrust for all Russian people on a subconcious level. Was it necessary to state that he was Russian? Only if news were trying to hint at something.

Ms Sherbini was stabbed 18 times by a 28-year-old Russian identified as Alex W

Ms Sherbini was stabbed 18 times by a 28-year-old man, identified as Alex W.

See the difference?

[Khamsin]

You may not have, but stating he was "Russian" in article, automatically, whether people like it or not, places a seed of mistrust for all Russian people on a subconcious level. Was it necessary to state that he was Russian? Only if news were trying to hint at something.





See the difference?

They mention the woman's race and religion, for some reason. Why omit the guy's?

[Tyr]

Well, understand that that was the article I was quoting, I was quoting relevant information -- and I'm sure you are not so naive that you don't see a double standard when it's a non-American (or some cases, anyone who's not white) having committed a crime, especially if they're from a country we're at odds with.

I did not arbitrarily change the quotes, I just chose which areas to highlight, and did provide links for anyone to access the full story. Any intelligible reader would click for the full source when a thread has snippets of quotes.

[Klaatu]

My point is, if you're trying to overcome the racial/ethnic tension between two nations, would you put emphasis on assailant's race/ethnicity?

Tyr, of course I understand it was an article you quoted, and I quoted a line from that article. Don't get defensive, it's not a personal attack.

[Elvis]

My point is, if you're trying to overcome the racial/ethnic tension between two nations, would you put emphasis on assailant's race/ethnicity?

Tyr, of course I understand it was an article you quoted, and I quoted a line from that article. Don't get defensive, it's not a personal attack.

I think the reason they attached the other guy's ethnicity/nationality was to denote where he was originally from since they also verified him as an immigrant.

I mean, they probably want to make sure people know the guy was not a German-born citizen. Was he even naturalized?

EDIT:

I keep reading this line: "[...]from Russia."

So I'm assuming he is not a citizen of Germany, which explains the blah blah.

[Zoolander]

I think the reason they attached the other guy's ethnicity/nationality was to denote where he was originally from since they also verified him as an immigrant.

I mean, they probably want to make sure people know the guy was not a German-born citizen. Was he even naturalized?

EDIT:

I keep reading this line: "[...]from Russia."

So I'm assuming he is not a citizen of Germany, which explains the blah blah.

Yea exactly. If you are Germany, you wanna make damn sure to distance yourselves from this guy as quickly and as far as possible. Painting a picture that it was some crazed Russian who just happened to be in Germany is a far better PR move than allowing people to assume he was a regular, crazed German citizen (thus representing Germany).

It's kind of dissapointing that this has become a big deal along racial lines, since honestly it was just some crazy guy killing a woman. The issue of extreme ignorance towards the entire Middle East and parts of Asia is something that really does need to come out in the open. There are plenty of "normal" people (liberal use of normal) that really are deathly afraid to fly with anyone who looks like a Muslim. That shit needs to stop, its just...utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately, education is severely lacking about these regions of the world (at least here in the U.S.) and the only "education" people have is from the news which only tends to show the crazy fuckers who think Islam somehow preaches suicide bombing, violence etc. I can't really blame the news though...I mean things going according to plan generally isn't news and it is on the other side of the world. I dunno...I hate our current education system with a passion.

[Faris]

If you are Germany

hehe

[Guitarman]

It's kind of dissapointing that this has become a big deal along racial lines, since honestly it was just some crazy guy killing a woman. The issue of extreme ignorance towards the entire Middle East and parts of Asia is something that really does need to come out in the open. There are plenty of "normal" people (liberal use of normal) that really are deathly afraid to fly with anyone who looks like a Muslim. That shit needs to stop, its just...utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately, education is severely lacking about these regions of the world (at least here in the U.S.) and the only "education" people have is from the news which only tends to show the crazy fuckers who think Islam somehow preaches suicide bombing, violence etc. I can't really blame the news though...I mean things going according to plan generally isn't news and it is on the other side of the world. I dunno...I hate our current education system with a passion.

And you're right. Most (not all, but most) of the blame is the media's protrayal of events that gets people worked into a frenzy. The race of the two people involved, the victim and the assailant was completely unnecessary information. Yet, it was put in to stir up the readers and generate more buzz. It's irresponsible reporting.

Reporting like this has gone on for countless years. Think back to the columbine school shootings. The news latched onto Marilyn Manson as the cause for the shootings, blaming him when there was no connection. His response was "The news is looking for a scapegoat to a problem, calling me disturbing, when the most disturbing thing was their coverage of everyone's suffering". I have no real liking of him or his music, but it's very true. It's all about the ratings, no matter what prejudice they throw on people in the process. People are easily swayed into changing their beliefs, and the media knows this. (hence one of the reasons i put that einstein quote in my sig, among other reasons).

[archibaldcrane]

Why wouldn't they at least report on the victim's origin and religion - ya know, since it was the fucking reason she was murdered?

That's not irresponsible reporting, that's the facts of the case. You can go back and forth about talking about whether the guy was a russian immigrant if you want (although I argue that if he's not a citizen that is news-worthy) but as far as the victim goes, her background is the crux of the case.