Want the public option for health care to pass? You can help!

[guartz]

Page 16, there it is Kuya. What a brazen power grab. At least Republicans generally go after the freedoms and liberties of non-Americans.

umm, you guys are quoting the grandfather clause. Yes, insurance as we know it will not be allowed anymore, but the ones in force now will still exist.

What worries me is this:

page 143:

12 SEC. 301. INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.
13 For an individual’s responsibility to obtain acceptable
14 coverage, see section 59B of the Internal Revenue Code
15 of 1986 (as added by section 401 of this Act).

I think they are gonna tax people who don't take out insurance.

[Kuya]

I think they are gonna tax people who don't take out insurance.

This is likely going to be in the real document, since it's something the health insurence lobby wants, and apparently Democrats too. So i can see legitimate concern for this, however they did say they would make getting insurence mandatory.

Anyway, like i said many times before, we need to focus on the Democrats and just ignore the Republicans. The democrats are spineless, sniveling weasels who can't be relied upon for anything unless you're on their asses 24/7, and quite frankly, with democrats like these, who needs republicans? Getting the blue dogs to pass the public option is important, the republicans are at best circus freaks distracting from the real goal.

[tyven]

i thought the W&M committee had enough blue dogs to block but i guess not. maybe its energy and commerce or maybe they are just coming around

[Olo401]

umm, you guys are quoting the grandfather clause. Yes, insurance as we know it will not be allowed anymore, but the ones in force now will still exist.

What worries me is this:

page 143:

12 SEC. 301. INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.
13 For an individual’s responsibility to obtain acceptable
14 coverage, see section 59B of the Internal Revenue Code
15 of 1986 (as added by section 401 of this Act).

I think they are gonna tax people who don't take out insurance.

2.5% of AGI. I'm pretty sure this (Sec 401) was added as an amendment in committee by the Blue Dog squad, and might get taken out when the bill goes to the House floor..

[Kuya]

It seems that Republicans and Blue Dogs have switched from their usual rhetoric against the public plan, to trying to delay the passing of the bill. You now have them accusing people of rushing the bill, as if they genuinely cared about passing a public plan in the first place. The intent is to drag it out so there might be a chance to not pass it.

In lieu of this, here is a site where you can sign your signature to have it delivered on video to the House to ask them to stay in session until the bill is passed. This will dissuade the argument that we need to slow them, because then they have no incentive to delay it, if there will be no break.

The Republicans, the Blue Dogs and Joe Lieberman want to stall passing a health care bill, because they know that if members go back to their districts in August it gives the health insurance lobby a chance to hammer them with millions in advertising. There's one word for that: unacceptable. The House should keep working until they pass a health reform bill - health care is more important than vacation.

We just created a petition asking the House to stay in session to pass health reform. Click here to sign the petition.Mike Stark will be delivering your signature on video to the House at the end of this week. Some Members of Congress want three weeks of vacation before they tackle health care reform. There is a real human cost for going on vacation. Three weeks in America without health care means:

143,250 people will lose their health insurance coverage
53,507 people will file for bankruptcy because they can't pay their medical bills
1,265 people will die because they lack coverage

[pohibaba]

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...tionedCare.png

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...ompetition.png

[Kuya]

Competition shifts supply to the right, lowers prices, diminishing quality, and rapes your children and your dog too.

edit: oh, the apocalypse

edit: oh, oh oh oh oh, and don't forget, it forces you to eat vegemite too.

[Beckwin]

a government option will undeniably increase supply/quantity, and demand decreases because everyone has it/doesn't want the overpriced private options as badly because they actually have another choice.

and I'm curious how the Humble Libertarian explains the 40 million people service shortage in America contrasted against the 100% coverage in Canada/Britain/France/etc.

[Beckwin]

fun article:

http://minnesotaindependent.com/3987...se-its-cheaper

a little explanation:

we can't do this because it's cheaper for people! I think bachmann is quickly becoming my most hated politician.

[Olo401]

Spoiler: show

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...tionedCare.png

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...ompetition.png

Uhh..

- None of the possible plans forces prices down by fiat - in fact it would do so through efficiency and creating additional competition.
- Shortages (i.e. denial and cancellation of coverage, sick/injured people being kicked off their plans and dumped on sidewalks in South Central LA, etc.) are happening NOW, because profit margins are more fucking important to HMOs and for-profit hospitals than keeping people alive.
- None of the possible bills being debated now have anything to do with socialized medicine, according to your own criteria. If anything, the best plan bring tossed around would create additional competition and prices would drop from making healthcare more efficient, which is what your second image asserts.

And speaking of basic freedoms.. you know, life, liberty, and either the pursuit of happiness or property depending what you're reading.. guess what the current system robs us of in their unending profiteering quest? Life.

[Kuya]

Just received this email:

With 64,000 votes cast, you chose to hold Sen. Max Baucus accountable in Montana with a hard-hitting television ad in support of the public option. And based on the news this morning, you made the right decision.

A new Washington Post article describes the Senator's fly-fishing weekends and chicken cordon bleu dinners with major insurance executives -- and the millions of dollars he receives in contributions from them.[1]

Meanwhile, Sen. Baucus is chair of a key Senate committee that is drafting its own version of the health care bill this week. There will never be a more important time to pressure him.

Can you chip in to help air our new ad in Montana? Click here.

Thanks to your donations so far, and to a great partnership with Democracy for America, we can already air the ad 200 times in Billings, Butte, Bozeman, and Helena. For a solid week, the ad will be on local morning and evening news shows -- and afternoon shows like Oprah.

And for every $10,000 that we raise now, we can run another 200 ads in Montana to keep the pressure up -- and do rapid-response ads in other targeted states that you voted for.

As always, we'll report the results. But it's clear from today's Washington Post article that we're already succeeding in framing this debate: 76% of Americans that support the public option vs. the insurance industry millions that oppose it.

It looks like, unsurprisingly, the number one target is Max Baucus.

[tyven]

sweet, ive been to one of those chicken cordon bleu dinners. i did not have the chicken cordon bleu

[Olo401]

For 2500 a plate there better be something other/better than fucking chicken cordon bleu..

[Kuya]

I don't know why pohi would wana troll a brother's thread. I could understand if he wanted to debate whether this reform is better than what we have now, or whether it's better than whatever options he has in mind. Or even if he wanted to have an honest intellectual debate about the strenghts and weaknesses of the reform on its own weight. But he just shows up and pops a pic about the reform destroying America or something.

How about we discuss something a little less head-in-the-clouds rhetorical, and focus on something more concrete, like how i have serious doubts that the US government is at the moment currently capable of proper governance. Quite frankly, i just don't think the government functions anymore, and the most fundamental issue to me is isolating the government from lobbysts and corporate blocs. Even the AARP and the teacher's union and their influence is counter productive to good government. There is simply too much money being tossed at the government. I have serious doubts that this health care reform will have what's really needed. Just like the reform of the financial sector and cap and trade are practically worthless.

[Olo401]

Pohi isn't trolling.. He presented something to the debate in a civilized manner. He's one of a few who goes against the majority here and actually does so in a respectable manner. He also makes good points and presents them coherently, whether or not we might agree with them.

[Kuya]

Violating privacy and abridging our basic freedoms is not a statement that is in anyway honest. If pohibaba really wants honest intellectual debate, then he can come back in and actually engage in one, instead of posting meaningless conjecture.

[eunhye]

# Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.1
# The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 8 million people since 2000.1
# The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2

So 46 million are uninsured and 20% of this 46 million, or 9.2 million are not native or not citizens. Who are they? Why must I insure these people?

[Kuya]

# Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.1
# The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 8 million people since 2000.1
# The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2

So 46 million are uninsured and 20% of this 46 million, or 9.2 million are not native or not citizens. Who are they? Why must I insure these people?

I am going to ask you a serious question now. Are you asking a serious question ? If you are, the question was answered multiple times, a long ass time ago. Quit asking it.

edit: that is, assuming it's not a rhetorical question.

[eunhye]

A very serious question. Why should I help to give illegal immigrants insurance?

[Kuya]

Number one. Unless you are at the top 1% of income earners, you are not paying for them.

Number two. They raise your premiums when they go to the hospital without being able to pay.