Pandemonium Warden downed again

[Yugl]

Looks like Yubor is shouting for JoL > AV. Not sure about the rest of the kanji (Too smudged on PS3). If anyone on Diabolos wants to check it out, it looks like 13:30-3 JST.

Edit: Move this wherever, but I'm not going to start a AV thread.

[Virtuous Saint]

Well since the last LS CFH'd PW and still got drops...

Is it possible to CFH it and fight it with all 36 people to like 5%.... then wipe, let it regen 2 tics (and unCFH) and then fight it w/ 1 alliance from 25ish%?

just need 1 person to keep DoTs on it while people unweak.

Mobs go uncalled for help at about 80-90% HP. That will not work, and also PW does not tick up so you would be waiting on Auto-Regen which would take far too long to have it become uncalled for help, and you would lose PW.

[Dravin]

Why is it that so many people have the mentality that doing things with a larger number of people is a bad thing. If you have the resources to do things with a larger group of people it in no way makes you or the LS you are in better or worse then a LS or its members that do things with less people. I honestly don't see how making things harder on yourself is a smart way of handling a situation. My shell has around 45-48 members on our roster with around 34 of those being 95% attendance players. We have low manned things and powered through things with high numbers. Both ways can be fun imo. As long as your good at scheduling you'll still have a high output of gear flowing into the shell.

Its always nice to have a safety net on some things. Losing pops because of freak wipes due to unexpected combos of TP moves/just bad luck can always happen. Just because you can or could do something with a lower number of people doesn't necessarily mean you should. But hey some mofos are always going to try to ice skate uphill.

In any case congratulations on the kill you guys we will be trying our first PW hopefully by the end of next month I'm sure the information you guys posted here will be invaluable.

[Shinryuu]

Because you could be splitting up your resources and getting twice as much stuff. There's, for instance, still linkshells that enter a random Limbus with 18. My 7-man Limbus static splits up every time and gets 2 chips per go. We do the 2 bosses together. Small example, but it shows how much more effective smallmanning is. This is probably where shunning going overboard on manpower comes from.

I do agree that freak wipes can happen more easily on lowmans and experiences that is the worst thing about FFXI and triggers the "I'm quitting this fuckface game" reaction. There was this Sarameya I did with like 6 or 7 and setup was fine, strategy was fine, and we got it to 3% twice and somehow wiped and now Sarameya is known as Voldemort in the LS. Oh man.

As far as PW goes, of course you want the most people available since even winning it with 50 is massively profitable. To a lesser extent this is true for Einherjar: losing a wing is just a waste of time and Odins.

[Mugmug]

I'm not sure why you would want to "split up your resources" on the second hardest monster in the game that 1% of the player base has beaten. You can't even compare PW to Limbus.

If the spawn items were easily obtainable then I'd understand trying with much less, but given how long it takes to even spawn him I'd say going with 35+ is a good idea.

Congrats on the kill btw.

[Demosthenes11]

Why is it that so many people have the mentality that doing things with a larger number of people is a bad thing. If you have the resources to do things with a larger group of people it in no way makes you or the LS you are in better or worse then a LS or its members that do things with less people. I honestly don't see how making things harder on yourself is a smart way of handling a situation. My shell has around 45-48 members on our roster with around 34 of those being 95% attendance players. We have low manned things and powered through things with high numbers. Both ways can be fun imo. As long as your good at scheduling you'll still have a high output of gear flowing into the shell.

Its always nice to have a safety net on some things. Losing pops because of freak wipes due to unexpected combos of TP moves/just bad luck can always happen. Just because you can or could do something with a lower number of people doesn't necessarily mean you should. But hey some mofos are always going to try to ice skate uphill.

In any case congratulations on the kill you guys we will be trying our first PW hopefully by the end of next month I'm sure the information you guys posted here will be invaluable.

Because nothing in this game takes more than 20 people (except maybe AV? ) so why would you have that many people (40+) in an ls to begin with. Filling up an ls roster for ONE mob is ridiculous. Also, zerg ls etc

[Shinryuu]

I'm not sure why you would want to "split up your resources" on the second hardest monster in the game that 1% of the player base has beaten. You can't even compare PW to Limbus.

If the spawn items were easily obtainable then I'd understand trying with much less, but given how long it takes to even spawn him I'd say going with 35+ is a good idea.

Congrats on the kill btw.

Read my third paragraph <_< I merely answered the question regarding why people look down upon mass-people mentalities.

[Dravin]

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. We split our resources in everything we do other then dynamis. Its nice having an Omega and 3-4 small group apollyon runs going at the same time. We do an omega every time we do limbus or if we are doing temenos an ultima every other limbus. Like i said before having a larger group of people isnt bad as long as you make good use of the numbers you have. This also puts you in a good position to do things like PW without the aid of another LS if the situation calls for it.

Yes we have a large member base but we get twice as much done in less time as a lot of other shells that have lower numbers. Also having more members ensures that you will always have the people you need for Einherjar as well as clearing entire zones in dynamis getting more AF and currency for relics. It may not be for everyone but it works just fine for us.

But anyways this is not the topic at hand and I would hate to see this thread get derailed. So instead of saying things like "make a strat using less people" we should all start working with what we have and go from there.

Oh and for the record i really don't see this fight being done with less then 30-36 people. If you find a way to do it with 20 excluding some throw a fuckton of relics at it strat which is much harder for most LSs to do then having a larger member base I will personally kiss your ass.

[Shinryuu]

Well in that case there's nothing wrong with having large numbers of people. I don't think smartly distributing people is the topic at hand either, I just think some people are very disappointed that PW cannot be done with smaller, easier-to-achieve numbers: it automatically excludes a portion of the endgame players from ever getting PW stuff and this portion includes some of the most skilled and intelligent players who like to use fewer numbers of people.

[Yugl]

Well in that case there's nothing wrong with having large numbers of people. I don't think smartly distributing people is the topic at hand either, I just think some people are very disappointed that PW cannot be done with smaller, easier-to-achieve numbers: it automatically excludes a portion of the endgame players from ever getting PW stuff and this portion includes some of the most skilled and intelligent players who like to use fewer numbers of people.

Aren't they the same people who bitch about how EG is so easy?

Edit: I realize that only eight (Technically seven) of the people in my sig are still EGLS leaders.

[Demosthenes11]

having double the members to do double the things is...pointless. Everyone gets geared at the same rate but you have twice the headache from leaders because there is a clusterfuck of people at everything. And I've said this in another thread, but there is no reason to lose an ein with more than 25 people - really doesn't matter what setup you get.

btw, you can do omega + 2-4 apollyon runs with 25, don't need 50

[Yugl]

having double the members to do double the things is...pointless. Everyone gets geared at the same rate but you have twice the headache from leaders because there is a clusterfuck of people at everything. And I've said this in another thread, but there is no reason to lose an ein with more than 25 people - really doesn't matter what setup you get.

btw, you can do omega + 2-4 apollyon runs with 25, don't need 50

That's only true if everyone in the LS needs gear from the same event. If some members are there to help out, but don't need gear from the event, you've just increased the pace at which you receive rewards without increasing the demand for rewards. Why might they help out? Friends or possibly people looking for items from other events. At those other events, there could be items people don't want items and are there just to contribute/build points. Another concern you have is absences.

This is especially true for my Apollyon LS. If half the members of a big LS are gone, you can still tackle 3-4 Apollyon/Omega zones and win reliably. If half of my members are gone, we can at most reliably do two zones (And it depends on which zones too).

[Plow]

or 12 people

or 6 people

or 3 people

or 1 person, for that matter.

I think you missed the point. He's not just deciding on an arbitrary number.

If it's going to take more people than you can possibly have in one group, it should be in an area where more than one group can function together, not silly bullshit of making half the challenge be adding/dropping people/parties.