"The history untold by version-up notes."

[takethistoyourgrave]

I updated the second post again with "Column 2" which speaks about RNG, BST, BRD, THF, and MNK, and I found it quite interesting, so give it a read!

[Kaeko]

Well to be fair... early NA HNMLSes (like founding BG, Machina, Paradise Oblivion, HiddenPower) knew that hate decayed over time as well as when taking damage/blinking. We just did not have it quantified outside of 'ok, lets get 2 naked elf paladins to flash a mob and see what happens'.

Around this time, many early endgame bards and paladins believed that Charisma also had an effect of enmity generation, either thru adding more enmity or changing the speed that it decreased. We did notice that bards generated insane amounts of hate over time at fights like Fafnir, but couldn't explain why. We were loaded up with CHR gear, and even some Paladin AF had CHR gear, so some started to think that it was related.

My testing was originally sparked by this BG thread:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/46982...ut-enmity.html

Where Elmer translates an article talking about the 2 types of enmity, which he translated as Cumulative and Volatile Enmity (this is why in my testing, I refer to these 2 types as such instead of the other suggested names like decaying vs. non-decaying hate etc. - his translation is the reason we use CE and VE terms now).

The problem with this kind of information is you need absolute overwhelming proof to get someone to believe you. For JP players, they get printed, sanctioned material by SE and associated writers, so the information becomes established and taken seriously (because SE sanctioned it) - even though this article lacks proof (and in fact, some parts of it are incredibly wrong, just that the 2 types is correct). For JP players then, the proof was the print material - for NA players it was formal testing.

Unfortunately, we never got patch notes translated so the little tid-bit about new hate system implementation went unknown to the NA community - which totally sucks. This is why having translations like the ones JPButton does is so helpful to the NA community, because SE would never tell us otherwise.

Overall, a veteran player could have probably eyeballed many of the key concepts such as the hate cap (which a number of players have long declared to exist years before Ashi and I's testing). The formal testing only makes it easier to teach and be exact without years of experience.

On topic: very cool thread.

[Absolutely Virtue]

Remembering that I had always wanted to look through the translated update notes on JPButton, I've been sitting here reading them this afternoon. There is an absolutely stunning bit from the update in 2003 (near the top of this page) that introduced the SAM, NIN, DRG, and SMN jobs.

At the time (maybe still? it has been so long), players needed to farm a drop from monsters in Konschtat Highlands, but there was a ton of competition. So they stood in line and waited for their turn. There are screenshots.

Can you fucking imagine that happening with the NA player base?

[Mistress Stowastiq]

old mithra /sit ;o

http://i27.tinypic.com/2j2fc7b.jpg

Looks like she had an accident there and needs a new pair of mithran separates. :X but gee I can't imagine why they would fix that? [sarcasm]

But this is a good idea for a thread, much appreciative of your work to translate. Would love to see it on JPbutton also, maybe you can collaborate with Elmer though he is likely busy as hell with the new position.

And "Public Test Chocobo Used for REAL VANA'DIEL Public Testing
Atomos Test Server" - Is that the server where the ATNM Test gobbie showed up?

[Linktri]

You used to be able to click on negative status icons at the top of the screen and remove their effects.

Poisoned? Just click it away!

[Deimos]

At the time (maybe still? it has been so long), players needed to farm a drop from monsters in Konschtat Highlands, but there was a ton of competition. So they stood in line and waited for their turn. There are screenshots.

Can you fucking imagine that happening with the NA player base?

Not sure why you think only JP players are capable of this, I've seen these sorts of lines for multiple events added in updates. The Adventuring Fellow BCNM, Diabolos Prime, etc.

There will always be assholes that try to jump the line too, it's not restricted to JP or NA players. Just this weekend we had a small group of JP players "jump" us for Khromasoul ???, even though we told them (yes, in Japanese) that we only had 3 pops left, and they watched us kill the previous one in 5 minutes flat. It was more important for them to ignore all the tells and camp the pop spot so that they could drag it off to the zone and take over half an hour to kill it while we all had to stand around.

Assholes are assholes, doesn't matter what country they live in.

To be more on-topic, thanks for posting this. Very interesting to read through, I didn't start playing the game until over a year after the NA release, so this is all long before my time. Very interesting to read about how much some things have changed, like RDMs previously having less MP than PLDs and DRKs. Hard to imagine a lot of things the "original way".

[Spider-Dan]

At the time (maybe still? it has been so long), players needed to farm a drop from monsters in Konschtat Highlands, but there was a ton of competition. So they stood in line and waited for their turn. There are screenshots.

Can you fucking imagine that happening with the NA player base?

I don't have to imagine... I remember it happening.

When the fellowship NPC quest was released, there was a line in Ghelsba Outpost for the final BC (to get your Signal Pearl). There was a considerable line (about 15 deep, as I remember) and people waited.

You had the occasional douchebag, but for the most part, people were reasonable.

[Deimos]

Just a note for takethistoyourgrave:

The BRD spell repeatedly referred to as "Pian" is "Paeon" in English, the Regen song.

[Spider-Dan]

■There was a little bit of a prejudice against people from Bastok.
□There still is.

Well played, sir.

[takethistoyourgrave]

And "Public Test Chocobo Used for REAL VANA'DIEL Public Testing
Atomos Test Server" - Is that the server where the ATNM Test gobbie showed up?

Sorry, I guess the way I wrote it isn't great; Chocobo is the name of the public test server, and Atomos is the test server.

I'm guessing Chocobo is the public server when they show the game off at shows, etc. and Atomos is the server where they do their private Beta testing? (lol, like they do this.)

But I could be totally wrong!

---

And thanks for the spell check, I guess my brain was in PSO mode with the Pian! I'll fix it up soon.

[takethistoyourgrave]

As far as getting it up onto jpbutton, I would be happy to clean it up a bit and possibly re-organize it if Elmer would like it on the site I know some of it is the same as what is on there, but there are a lot of parts regarding the player experiences and personal views that I find quite interesting and I think other FFXI players do too.

[Seanr]

I don't have to imagine... I remember it happening.

When the fellowship NPC quest was released, there was a line in Ghelsba Outpost for the final BC (to get your Signal Pearl). There was a considerable line (about 15 deep, as I remember) and people waited.

You had the occasional douchebag, but for the most part, people were reasonable.

Yea I remember the long ass line in Eldieme...

[dejet]

/sh ZONEING GOB RUN!!!!!!! AHAHAA

good ol days huh? very nice read and nice facts that i never knew LOL

Yea I remember the long ass line in Eldieme...

me too, what ever happened to that? lol Just last week A linkshell was gathering for namis, told their leader that we where just about ready to enter and if we could have the zone.

his answer:
i dont see why not you have more people.

5min later he pops the glass with 5 people and goes in

thinking back i guess i should of took his wording as a total dick sarcastic remark but really that is somewhat hard to get over text.

i did some missions with ally's. The Promos i went up with over 20 people each, we mixed and matched jobs for hours till we got something to work ~_~;

[Elmer the Pointy]

As far as getting it up onto jpbutton, I would be happy to clean it up a bit and possibly re-organize it if Elmer would like it on the site I know some of it is the same as what is on there, but there are a lot of parts regarding the player experiences and personal views that I find quite interesting and I think other FFXI players do too.

I'd be glad to have it up on JP Button. The stuff that I put up was from a 5th Anniversary book published by Enterbrain that had a timeline of the game's updates and changes. So some is the same, but there are comments in your translation that wouldn't be contained in an official guide book. Also, I got to 2004 and was distracted by interviews and junk coming in.

Send me a PM and we'll go from there. You'll get full credit on the site, of course, and anything other translations you want to contribute are more than welcome.

[Deadgye]

Not sure why you think only JP players are capable of this, I've seen these sorts of lines for multiple events added in updates. The Adventuring Fellow BCNM, Diabolos Prime, etc.

I don't have to imagine... I remember it happening.

Woosh...?

[Absolutely Virtue]

It's funny, a RL friend mentioned the same thing about lines in Ghelsba, and I just don't remember. Maybe I'm jaded, but enough people have said that it has happened that I'm sure it has.

I just compare that to the yoinkfest that is FoV in the high level areas, and I can't remember a time in FFXI where anyone (JP or NA) respected what other people were trying to do.

PS- I'd steal from every single one of you if given the chance because rules don't apply to me because I'm awesome.

[Spider-Dan]

Woosh...?

Did you happen to see who those two posts were in response to? (hint: it wasn't to each other)

[takethistoyourgrave]

CONTINUED FROM POST 2. (Which reached 30,000 characters)

■Protectra and Holy Circle had really high hate, and could be used in the place of Provoke.

■Hate from monsters on your PT members was incredible. Even if you took and ran a mob to a zone on the opposite side of the map, it would surely run all the way back to your other party members even far away.

■Using Protectra or Curaga, the monsters that other PTs nearby were fighting would come aggro you.

■At first, Holy was really incredible on the DMG dealt to MP used ratio, even better than BLM.
PLD would use it to fish enemies, and WHMs became used in the place of BLMs.

■The recipe for Brigandine armor was hugely disputed and created a stir. (Translator note: Goblin Drink anyone?)

■If you had blink on and tried to use warp, all it would do is take a shadow.

■Also, if you had blink on and had a song cast on you, it would clear all of your shadows.

■In the past, songs weren't effected by singing skill. (Even less than now.)

■In the past, even main BRD could only keep one song effect active.

■In the past, songs cast on enemies would also take 10 seconds to cast, so monsters often moved out of range when soloing.
Even though the song wouldn't land on them due to out of range, often times they would just come running with a red name anyway; and if it was a goblin, you could be sure he was bringing all his buddies.
Song hate was stupidly high, and singing mid-battle meant suicide.
In the past the amount of songs to learn was incredibly low, and most of them were learned by level 25.
So, subbing BRD was the way to go, and a lot of WARs would sub BRD (and it was stronger than main BRD).

■At one time, getting hit would give you 10TP, so anyone could sub WAR or WHM and join in on the skillchains.

■Because the damage from Black Cloud and Battle Dance AOEs were much lower than now, and they gave 10TP every time, everyone would gather round and join in on skillchains.

■Songs were interrupted when hit with Battle Dance.
□Yeah, they were interrupted because Battle Dance has a stun effect.
□Stun barely procs. Battle Dance has horrible DEX rating.
Well, but if you got Battle Dance'd by an IT, generally stun would land, huh.
□Songs were just like magic now; you could get interrupted by being hit.
But Battle Dance would miss a lot.

■Ghost mobs originally used Shock Spikes.
□Well, I think originally the ghosts who were high enough level to use Shock Spikes used that, and the ghosts below that level used ice spikes.

■Even if you were a high rank, unless you were a Sandorian citizen you couldn't freely enter the Chateau.
So, when you were on the three country mission (M6), all the monks knew to grab their Lynx Bagnaks at that time.

■There was a coin locker at the AH that you could use for 10 gil.

■Even if you put your cursor over status effects (tabbed through where the icons should be?), they wouldn't show up on the screen.

■Lower level goblins would drop Wool items.
It was pretty good for farming.
I think that Saruta's crabs also dropped something you could sell for a lot of gil.
I think both of these good drops were patched out at the same time.
□At the same time as Fish dropping Shall Shells, maybe?
□Goblins still can drop wool items.
But yeah, it seems they lowered the droprate though the floor, though.

■People wouldn't say "wwwww".
■2ch slang and kaomoji wasn't used as often as it is now.
■Well, because there originally wasn't a place for people to talk and it was kept underground, eventually it was swept into the tide of public message boards and stuff.

■"Users shouldn't get used to tons of version ups ^_^", we were stupidly told...
□Ughh, I've read this far and just reading this one thing makes me want to beat the shit out of the development team.

■There were dragonflies in Konschtat Highlands.

---
(Equipment stuff)

■Hunting Sword was sold constantly for ridiculously high prices. (Translator note: I had to look up what this actually was, lol).
■Peacock Charm, Bloodbead Earring etc. were sold for around 100k.
■Scale armor could be worn until around level 30. The birth of the "scale hero".
■Frontliners longed to wear Steel armor. (Translator note: Maybe chainmail? I remember this being really popular in 2002/2003).

(Food stuff)

■Even non-Galka could eat raw Cockatrice and Couerl meat.
□Uh, I think non-Galkas could only eat Couerl, not Cockatrice.
■Mithra couldn't eat raw fish back then.
■When they decided to make food more effective, Couerl meat gave STR+7, and because of that it was useful and became really popular.
■Up until that, the most popular was Grilled Hare. At this time, the amount of people who didn't eat food at all were about 80%.
■Meat Mithkabobs were about 1500gil for one, so nobody really bought them.
■Most Frontliners used Boiled Eggs. (Translator note: HP+10 MP+10)
■There was a period of time where frontliners only choice was boiled eggs.
Because they would always be provoked by the mages, "C'mon, just eat an egg...".
■Before Boiled Eggs started being purchasable at NPC, they were also around 1500 gil each.
You couldn't get Lizard Eggs from any lizards except the ones in Wadi.
Because eggs were used in the Bastok mission and a Windurst quest, eggs were a really hot-ticket item.
■Bastokers were all into Galkan Sausage. They were frantic about making them.
■All the status-ups given by food were fixed.
■There were also frontliners who ate Sandorian grapes. (Translator note: INT+3 AGI-5. Maybe he meant backliner?)

---
(Game related)

■Around 11/2002, when Sandoria was second or last in conquest, even though that group of entertainers wasn't even supposed to be there, all you could hear by the empty South Sando AH was the sound of knives being thrown.
This was fixed around the time Zilart came out.
□(　・∀・)つ〃∩he-he-he-he-he-he

■Even in towns, you could pretend like you were ranged-attacking other PCs.

■Casting magic and interrupting in the guilds, you could get a lot of abuse.

■At Lvl 15, WAR had a HP Max UP Job trait.
□And later on they didn't erase it, just changed it to a DEF up trait.

■BRD had such high hate with every song that singing would get you killed.
Of all the EX jobs (Translator note: RNG, BST, DRK, PLD, BRD), BRD originally was even worse than RNG.

■The order in which you learned dagger WS Gust Slash and Viper Bite were reversed. (Translator note: It does make sense to learn Viper Bite after Wasp Sting >.>)

■Even if you used SA > WS, you would still have the SA effect.

■The 2h Axe WS Sturmwind was a single hit WS.

■En-spells were nerfed in August, September, and November, and then in February they returned them from Physical DMG back to Magical DMG.

■Leaping Boots came from Highlands.


■Shadow Lord was unkillable.
□During the Lv50 cap era, he was set at a difficulty where he was definitely impossible to kill.
Because you could fight him, all the hardcore players didn't think "this is impossible", they thought "surely there must be a way to win" and did tons and tons of research. (Translator note: AV of 2002.)
□Ah, no, it's different; when the game first came out, the missions only went up to a certain point.
At that time, you couldn't fight Shadow Lord,
at the time the ■ guy posted.
"Online games have no end, and are constantly being further developed and newly added to."
is what was said, but people thought it was a stupid explanation for stuff like this.
"Online games should be released early and then implemented into. You can always add stuff later."
I remember them saying this, and there was a huge backlash from the community. (Translator Note: Wow, this really IS a lot like the AV situation...)
□They still have that stance now.
I think I heard there were no Galkas, originally? It's a lot like the Tu'Lia situation now.

■You couldn't get "Protect" scroll anywhere but the Windurst Yagudo.
Because of that, at first, it was sold for tons of gil in the popular Bastok.

■It's like what the guy said above about them removing the normal field Beastman armor drops.
"The probability of getting items from Beastmen in Dungeons has been increased."
(ﾟ∀ﾟ)？

■You couldn't look at the log during a battle. (I'm guessing this means it was scrolling too fast?)

■Goldsmithing was profitable by buying from the guild but when they raised the prices, I remember main goldsmithers cried a lot.

■When Bastok was in first, you could buy all kinds of stones from a vendor near the airship.

■During battle you definitely couldn't cast Bar-spell, Protect, or Curaga.

■When you got berserk from a pet command, it was so annoying...

■You couldn't cancel the effect of "Wait" with "Heel".

■No matter how you look at it, Provoke's hate was nerfed, even though the other guy is saying it was never weakened.

■RNGs were half made-fun-of because they were considered cool just because they could use guns.

■Maat wasn't around.

■NPC prices for items were constantly lowered.
You were getting overpaid for little work.

■There was a quest that we thought was amazing, where you could trade 3 silk threads for 500gil. If you think about it now, it is a total waste.

■At that time, most people were buying and selling their weapons at the shops.
□Even now there are a lot of things you can get cheaper at NPC than AH.
□You can make big profit selling things in Jeuno that are only available in the 3 cities.
Crafters are lazy so they will often buy them up even at inflated prices.
□Players who are too lazy to check NPC prices and hardcore players with too much gil caused all the inflation.

■Crystals started dropping slower, and it was difficult for crafters.

■There was a miso manga.

■You couldn't use "Steal" on yellow-named monsters.

■You couldn't synth with stackable materials unless you separated them from the stack one by one.

■If you cast protect on someone mid-craft, it would break all their materials.
□It wasn't just protect; magic and songs, too.

■You couldn't synth in your moghouse.

■You couldn't buy the airship pass for 500k like you can now.

■The materials you needed to make Mythril Breastplate were only dropped by the Goliath in Fei Yin.

■There was a rumor/joke at the time that Mythril Quadav's dropped Mythril Breastplate and Yagudo's could drop White Cloak.

■Warrior's H2H was lowered from C to D.

■I think originally when people wanted to go to Jeuno, they thought you had to go through Bedeaux.

■People thought PVP was going to be possible in Qu'Bia.

■If the PT members were surrounding the enemy when the battle began, they would all end up on the hate list.
When you had big links, even casting spells like cure on yourself would make the other enemies attack you.

■If you changed equipment mid-cast, it would interrupt your casting.
I think even lately, if you changed 2 or more pieces of armor, you would possibly get cancelled.

■There was no level restriction, like the BC ones we have now.
　
■In the beginning, crabs even in the areas surrounding the starting towns could drop shells.
□Once people found out about that, they were rushing to kill as many crabs as possible, so there was a quick maint to fix that.
□Shells sold to the NPC for 700 gil.
□Although now you can NPC shells for 391, and sometimes the AH is even lower than that.


More to come.

[Seanr]

■Peacock Charm, Bloodbead Earring etc. were sold for around 100k.

Wow...

[Fridell]

Reminds me when Astral Rings went for 20k at Bastok AH when I started lol.