Summoner's Royal Redingote

[Kenji]

You're not going to find any real testing, because none has been done. Which is why no one can link you to it. The best you can do, is just eyeball it. Feel you're getting 200-300 damage Pclaws too often? add some accuracy.

To add some more personal anecdotes, depending on what I'm fighting, Garuda melees 20-40 damage a hit. Perp is generally 2 a tick, but with a few twitches, it's fairly easy to get 1 or 0. Even though it's not quite right, if you assume 2mp per attack and we take the lower end (20 damage a hit), then you've got a 10 damage to 1mp spent ratio. That's fairly mp efficient already. And it only goes up as your avatar deals more melee damage, and your perp cost stays constant. Doing 40 damage per 2mp spent is, ratio-wise, equivalent to a BLM spending 171 mp to do a 3420 Thunder IV. And once you get a free avatar out(with no outside forms of refresh), the mp efficiency is unmatched.

Someone earlier mentioned getting an extra 200 damage per BP from a piece of gear. If you assume 45 seconds between BPs, an avatar attack speed of every 3 seconds(which I think is slow), and 20 damage a hit... then you get an extra 300 damage between BPs. Are you getting an extra 300 damage from +15 attack? I haven't seen that.

And that's ignoring the additional damage you'll get from a magic BP, from the TP you're gaining. Double Attacks help this as well. The haste from the hat coming up in the moogle mini-xpac is gonna big a big temptation as well.

Of course, if you're zerging something that's gonna be dead in 1-2 mins, then all this doesn't matter much. But SMNs are rarely taken to quick zergs anyway, as they can't output the burst damage that a SAM or DRK can. And I tend to solo things that have much more HP, and take 8+ BPs to kill, so this setup works well for me. I haven't used carby to solo anything in forever; safe, but too slow.

Your situation and mileage will vary.

[chiyio]

Doing 40 damage per 2mp spent is, ratio-wise, equivalent to a BLM spending 171 mp to do a 3420 Thunder IV. And once you get a free avatar out(with no outside forms of refresh), the mp efficiency is unmatched.

And that's ignoring the additional damage you'll get from a magic BP, from the TP you're gaining. Double Attacks help this as well. The haste from the hat coming up in the moogle mini-xpac is gonna big a big temptation as well.

And here I thought that SMN was all about spiked hate free damage that DOESNT FEED TP.

[Silenka]

And here I thought that SMN was all about spiked hate free damage that DOESNT FEED TP.

...

Unless you have a merited 75 BP, in which case meleeing your avatar is fine (depending on mob/circumstance) so you can put out a higher number than you would with 0% TP?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Oh, please. Enemies have 100 TP in under 30 seconds most of the time, regardless of what you're throwing at them.

[Kenji]

And here I thought that SMN was all about spiked hate free damage that DOESNT FEED TP.

All depends on what you're fighting, and of course, adjusting tactics based on mob is highly advisable. But in my experience, very few things have TP moves that get spammed when an avatar melees, are really that dangerous. Anything that is dangerous can be stunned if need be, or there are other ways to deal with them (ie, utsu).

If your LS can deal with the TP moves, then an avatar melee'ing is not going to make the situation any harder. Especially on kited stuff like a jailor, where a melee'ing avatar can still whack away while chasing, then let off a more powerful Wind Blade.

And there's a lot of stuff that has regain, or enough melee hitting it, that it gets TP fast anyway.

Just throwing out an alternate viewpoint. I'd suggest SMNs parse their extra melee damage between BP's sometime. Of course, this requires the proper gear and macro swaps, and /SCH for aspir and sublimation. Haste, Fast Cast, M.Accuracy, Dark Skill and INT gear enable you to get the most out of your aspirs. Which I'm sure should be standard knowledge for most around here.

[Malacite]

Perp 2 is such a massive waste....

YY Robe lowers BP timer and gives auto-refresh, so you're really only gaining 1 more MP off the perp cost with the Redingote.

My picks would be MAB/MACC +7 & Accuracy +15, or Attack and Accuracy +15 to max out the 70 pacts. The only way I'd take that -2 is if I had Nirvana to edge ever-closer to free avatars and even then it would still be a waste since Nirvana also packs that nasty MAB +20...

[dejet]

-2 prep has no use? huh?

lol i just kited Jailer Of Faith for like 20min with a co smn b/c its free with any refresh

I dont have ultima hands yet, when i get them ya i might change it to +15 attack acc or w/e till then i like having refresh and getting a free strong pet.

prep gear:
HQ wind staff
AF1+1 feet
that body with -2
Evokers ring
might be missing something. but whatever it is, i find a good use to having a free pet more then a few times a week. Nothing like Kiteing a mob with a avatar and taking like 200 dmg from AMII it dishes out lol

[nitsuj]

. The only way I'd take that -2 is if I had Nirvana to edge ever-closer to free avatars

This. Ignoring all the rest, you nailed why I want perp -2. You guys all talk about min/maxing your sets... I want to get as close as I can to that free avatar. And unlike Fro I don't have Penance Robe and would rather use that gil for Alexandrite.

But after Nirvana, we'll see. But can we at least agree that it's not as massive waste for people that don't have have Penance? There's no need to make EVERY SMN augment thread about how you think perp -2 people are stupid.

Let the PLD's argue over their gear sets. We're SMN's. We're better than that.

[frodnonnag]

This. Ignoring all the rest, you nailed why I want perp -2. You guys all talk about min/maxing your sets... I want to get as close as I can to that free avatar. And unlike Fro I don't have Penance Robe and would rather use that gil for Alexandrite.

But after Nirvana, we'll see. But can we at least agree that it's not as massive waste for people that don't have have Penance? There's no need to make EVERY SMN augment thread about how you think perp -2 people are stupid.

Let the PLD's argue over their gear sets. We're SMN's. We're better than that.

fine, next question. evoker's spats or marduk shalwar for physical BP rages?

[Spira]

Perp cost is definitely undervalued. I'm one of the Nirvana pursuers and have people asking me stuff like "90m for an extra perp-1, what are you crazy?"... the truth is that perpetuation cost gets more and more useful the more of it you have.
Hitting 0 perp cost is effectively the epitome of SMN dmg:mp efficiency. BPs may still use MP, but you'd be using no additional MP to put out slightly more damage and increase your Rage (magical) pact dmg even further.

The best example we have thus far is Carbuncle, which is unconditionally free, and we can even get 1mp/tic back from. MP efficiency is maximized and (at least solo) surviveability is greatly increased. The only point of contention is that Carby is also the weakest avatar at our disposal, but an unconditionally free Fenrir for example, would alraedy make a world of difference, let alone the celestials...

as such, -2 perp is really not a bad choice for the Redingote, and when you can pair it up with like another bonus of your choice.. it makes for a nice piece of perp gear

[Silenka]

fine, next question. evoker's spats or marduk shalwar for physical BP rages?

I use oracle's pants. Whether it's better or worse than evoker's spats is up in the air, because no one knows the exact acc increase on evoker's. However, I use oracle's for resting, for BP rages, and for other jobs, so they're always on me, whereas I would have to take out my whole af set to get my evoker's spats...not worth it to me...

I'm pretty tired of the -2 perp being worthless or not argument too. For some playstyles it is useless, for others, it's definitely not, why people can't seem to accept this I just don't understand. Bunch of stubborn people in here for sure.

[Spira]

I dont have marduks. i use evokers for physical BP and oracles for wards/merit BPs.
no real reason tho, i just think evoker's look nicer.

no conclusive testing has been done but i'll just trust evokers since i leave the avatar out a fair bit and +skill does nothing for that.

[Tomino]

Might be that this topic will be completely revolutioned once the new Avatar(s) are out.

I do agree with Spira tho, the potential of a free Fenrir is unvaluable.

[DAKPluto]

Honestly, from my experience so far, neither the Accuracy or Attack augment has proven itself more effective for me over the critical on the AF2 body. And to be honest, I think this will be even more so with the new headpiece and the 3% critical on it.

So is the -2 perp an earth shattering stat? Not really, most of the time really won't mean anything. But it's kinda just a left over stat at this point. Although I've been thinking of just getting the 2nd stat for something for my WHM now at this point. Accuracy stat would make it a bitching Hexa piece

[Keyln]

Perpetuation down is a powerful choice for Summoners, and it allows Summoners to act without resting or releasing avatars. With the gear in game already, it's possible to get 0 perpetuation avatars at 75 without needing any source of outside refresh. Garuda, Fenrir, and Carbuncle are especially notable as they're easier to hit 0 perpetuation without needing Nirvana or Summoner's Doublet.

For me personally, I already have the Summoner's Doublet, and it's one of the things that make 0 perpetuation avatars possible. That would make the choice of -2 perpetuation rather redundant and useless for me.

Again, like it's been said before, it's about what choices are available and what things are obtainable.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I don't really see how you can speak as if not needing a form of refresh is liberating, while simultaneously building your case around hoping the day matches up to a useful avatar.

[Keyln]

I don't really see how you can speak as if not needing a form of refresh is liberating, while simultaneously building your case around hoping the day matches up to a useful avatar.

Only on most of our avatars. For 3 of our avatars, Carbuncle, Garuda, and Fenrir, it is possible to get 0 perpetuation without it needing be Lightsday, Darksday, or Windsday. Last I checked, Garuda is still the most popularly used avatar...

Now, if SE gave us another -1 Perp in any of the following slots: Head, Legs, Ring, Earring, Belt, Back; then the Summoner's Doublet would be all but obsolete, as it'd be possible to get 0 perpetuation for any avatar regardless of day.

I am almost positive that smn magic skill has a cap on acc, and I also think SE stated this in the update notes?

No, the cap on SMN magic is only for Ward bloodpacts, and only on certain bloodpacts. For Rage bloodpacts, there is no cap per say, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Where that is, only Altana knows.

[Karbuncle]

Anyone here heard of a Conjurers Ring? No?

Anyway, I went ahead and put Macc/Matk and Double/Crit on mine first time around, Realized Double Attack didn't proc in the BP and went ahead and got the PLD armor >.>

Regardless, looking back i probably would have gotten Acc/Macc/Matk if i got the Redingote again... This is only because i own Relic Body and YYR... and it just seems like a waste of resources for Perp-2 Unless you do Solo play and Duo play more often than End Game events.

Pretty simply put i dont think 1 Extra perp is going to outweigh 15 Accuracy when it comes down to Bloodpacts or Letting your Avatar Melee over time, Cause even if your SMN Gear is Mediocre with Refresh your Avatars shouldn't be more than 3mp/tic.

But maybe Perp-1 is better than 15 Acc, or 15 Attack?

Btw i say -1Perp because if you don't own a YYrobe, Austere Robe, or V.Cloak you should Quit SMN now.

[DAKPluto]

correct, makes no sense for summoning skill to have a cap on accuracy. Would be like a cap on weapon skill or other magic skills, which just ain't there. But you do reach a point where getting to the next tier takes ungodly amounts.

But as said, god only knows where SMN is in that right now.

Karbuncle, problem with the accuracy/attack is that you have to give up relic body for it...and I just haven't seen myself enough output from the accuracy or attack to justify not using relic body.

[nitsuj]

fine, next question. evoker's spats or marduk shalwar for physical BP rages?

Currently, I have Evks Spats +1 for physical pacts. Although once I finish Marduk (I have the 35, just need other two believe it or not) I'm going to do my own testing to see if I'm making the best choice.

Perp cost is definitely undervalued. I'm one of the Nirvana pursuers and have people asking me stuff like "90m for an extra perp-1, what are you crazy?"... the truth is that perpetuation cost gets more and more useful the more of it you have.

Exactly. Blitz Ring anyone? People pay 500k for 1% haste, and most people think they're crazy, but people who buy it realize that that 1% haste with the right other gear is amazing.

Anyone here heard of a Conjurers Ring?

I have that too, of course. (hence my blitz ring comment)


EDIT: Wasn't if confirmed that relic hands and AF legs DO NOT stack "enhances avatar accuracy"? If that was confirmed, what kind of testing has been done to ensure that the RR accuracy stacks as well? (Or maybe I'm making up the 'doesn't stack' argument, but I swear I recall it)