Leveling as Rogue.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

Any recommendations? I hear Combat swords is the way to level, but I'm really interested in Mutilate around 60 or so. Is Combat "that" much better, or could I get away with mutilate through BC + WotLK?

[Eaglestrike]

I'm pretty sure combat is best because of a couple factors. One being positioning really not mattering to combat, another being parry+dodge talents in the combat tree and a final one being unfair advantage.

If/when I go to level a new rogue I think I'm going to do combat daggers, but I may go swords, depends on how BoA gear goes because if I need to buy daggers for my hunter I'm not going to go out and get 100 emblems for swords...but there's a bunch of new BoA gear coming so I'm not sure what all there will be.

[Noobta]

I always recommend this when it comes to rogue leveling.
Zodar's Rogue Leveling Tips

[deshende]

It kind of depends on your play style and how you plan on leveling up.

I level as Sub. from like 1-65 or so (this was pre-wolk so slightly different talent trees). I spent a lot of time in stealth when I was questing (by passing a lot of the trash killing) so I enjoyed the extra stealth speed and the reduced detection chance. Shadow step was also nice in speeding up the time of engagement (or taking short cut over terrain obstacles). Sub. had some nice tricks for extra survivability as well (Ghostly Strike, Preparation, etc). Sub lacks on speed of killing compared to other specs (from what I remember). This also isn't optimal if you just plan on instance grinding.

I picked up combat near 70 (when I was prepping to raid Kara) and have been combat main sense. Combat is fun because you're not really limited on weapon choice. Any weapon that you pick up that upgrades your dps is fair game for use (may require a respec if you had specific talent points in one type or the other). Combat is more brute force so I've missed a bit of my stealth side of the rogue, but still having a good time with it.

I've just started playing with a Mutilate build for pvp. It's a lot of fun but I don't have any experience with it for leveling (I would think the need to always have daggers would be limiting, but that's just speculation).

[aurik]

Currently leveling my rogue, I'm 64 now. I've been leveling with 2x Balanced Heartseeker. For most of my leveling I went combat, but a rogue friend at 80 told me I should switch to a muti build since I have these daggers. The change was extremely noticeable; I am doing a ton more damage now.

If you're going to level with the heirloom pve daggers (I think the only other viable heirloom choice is the pvp sword) then I'd endorse going mutilate.

Spec:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...The+Goon+Squad
Currently going up the combat tree. Pay no attention to my glyphs, they were from my Combat spec.

[Correction]

Is this your first character? If not there's no reason not to spend the 1k gold and open up dual spec and just let your best weapons dictate if you're going mutilate (assuming heirloom daggers) or combat (assuming any other non-dagger weapon type). Sinister Strike spam is a little monotonous but the greater number of ohshit buttons to press comes in handy once you reach the increased mob densities found in outland/northrend zones.

[Quixotic]

Combat and mutilate are fairly even for single target dmg while leveling up, but where combat really shines (and imo, makes it better for leveling) is the ability to take down 4-5 mobs at once when your cooldowns (Evasion, Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush, Killing Spree) are ready.

[Kenai]

but there's a bunch of new BoA gear coming

Tell me more.

[Correction]

Tell me more.

Stained Shadowcraft Tunic - Item - World of Warcraft would be of interest to rogues. There are chests planned for every armor type, plus new weapons.

[Rama]

like Venerable Mass of McGowan - Item - World of Warcraft for those who would like to be combat-minded from 1-80. Obviously a fist would be better, but you get what you get. (It's my understanding combat is slow/fast but if I'm wrong ingore this Enh-sham mace).

It's also my understanding that the chests will stack with the shoulders for a lol-tastic 20% exp bonus.

[Kurp]

I switched to Mutilate sometime in Outland, around when I could go 41/5/xx and get Camouflage. The build I used was close to the standard PvP one, but I took Remorseless Attacks and dropped Ruthlessness. It was with the old Overkill though, but the new one should still be good for leveling, just not as silly. I don't think it's worth it without Camouflage though, as you'll be waiting on the Stealth cooldown all the time.

Personally, I liked it a lot more than Combat. Run speed and stealth talents are great as well as 55% crit from talents for the first Mutilate.

This is the spec I used when I switched. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fGxcoeMRVroczZ0xZxbc

All the rest of my points went into Sub to grab stealth talents, cooldown reducers, and Dirty Deeds which is amazing but you don't get it until you're almost 80. :/

Glyph of Mutilate is a must. Glyph of Vigor was my second slot. Wound poison on both weapons.

[Plow]

The raw kill speed of a build that doesn't require positioning and includes blade flurry will never be touched by daggers, period. If you're sinister striking with a dagger mh, stop.

[Kurp]

The raw kill speed of a build that doesn't require positioning and includes blade flurry will never be touched by daggers, period. If you're sinister striking with a dagger mh, stop.

Mutilate beats Combat single target handily from my experience. Combat does better against multiple targets with better avoidance and cooldowns.

Sinister Strike with daggers and Backstab suck though.

edit: Even at 80, Combat is shit for quests/dailies compared to Mutilate or 27/0/44. Having Stealth on a 4 second cooldown with high out of stealth damage and fast CP generation wins.

[Plow]

who the hell kills 1 quest mob at a time?

that would be doinitwrong


and before someone says elites, hi2u ar

[Kurp]

You always kill 2+ mobs at once as a rogue while leveling? Honestly?

[Eaglestrike]

Tell me more.

Yeah, there are new BoA chests for everyone as well as a few new weapons. There's a two-handed mace for feral druids, that mace that was linked above and I'm not sure what else.

[Plow]

You always kill 2+ mobs at once as a rogue while leveling? Honestly?

however many I can group up without dying


also 3.2 = combat potency from fan of knives again = even more insanity

takes 16.5 mobs or some shit to get 100 energy from fan, fan costs 50 >.>

[Kurp]

Are you sure FoK procs CP in 3.2 or was the change for Shiv?

I can't say that I'm a fan of sitting on my thumb waiting on cooldowns to take a bunch of mobs at once, while I could kill them one by one very quickly. Mutilate kills out of stealth way faster than combat.

[Plow]

Are you sure FoK procs CP in 3.2 or was the change for Shiv?

It's "all offhand attacks." Don't be surprised if it gets nerfed when they realize 8 mobs = infinite fan, but for the moment it's everything.

I can't say that I'm a fan of sitting on my thumb waiting on cooldowns to take a bunch of mobs at once, while I could kill them one by one very quickly.

Who said anything about sitting waiting on cooldowns? Own everything near you in the face. Even dodging does significant damage as combat these days, lol.

Mutilate kills out of stealth way faster than combat.

Mutilate kills the first mob you fight faster than combat (provided you're not using any combat cooldowns).

After that, you're using 150% as much energy on your primary attack which does (guesstimate) about 180% of the dmg, exchanging mass energy gain for cp gain, and giving up a *tremendous* amount of defensive abilities and group killing capability.


Mutilate is built around raiding and pvp, when the mob doesn't die before the combo points really matter.


It may or may not be faster in raw single killing. Pretty close there. The instant you use your first blade flurry/ar/kspree setup, as long as you know how to do it, you're blowing mutilate utterly and completely out of the water.

Don't underestimate how powerful 2 minute cooldowns are, even if you're not quite as fast in between.

[Kurp]

Eh.

I'm not going to get sucked into a silly argument with the resident WoW forum troll.

To anyone that wants to level as Mutilate in Outland and above, do it! It's fun and it works!