What Are The Appropriate Gears When Subbing /Ranger

[Malacite]

WAR sub would be ok for Yoichi IMO if SAM had B+ Archery like it should but it's only a C- so the extra +21/22 acc helps (plus you can potentially barrage for retarded damage so again, acc bonus)


Namas is really only against low def mobs or in a situation where you want steady damage and no hate.


Personally I think ranged attacks need a damage boost as 2H (GKT in particular) does... well I don't want to say too much damage, but Ranged seems to have really lost it's edge by end game (at least in merits and Nyzul, etc. Any zerg scenario really which is weird if u think about it...) could use a boost. I mean, with all the haste and SAM abuse going on would making RNG the way it used to be really be that bad again? Or at least close to it?

Let's not kid ourselves here, SAM is pretty god damned strong now... borderline broken. I played SAM/RNG just prior to the 2H updated and loved it so much, then the update came and I was like "well, fuck spending the money on this."


RNG still owns hard and can spike damage like crazy, but between Meditate, Haste etc SAM actually has more spike damage potential which to me is just plain wrong. Nevermind DRK and Souleater abuse.


^^ I will say this though in defense of ranged fun... was EXP COR last night in Yuhtunga, level synch 24 with a BRD, DRK and 2 PL (rest of the PT was RDM, SAM NIN I think) and at one point I managed a 276 Hot Shot after the synch guy hit 25... That's some bad ass damage for that level XD the PT was freaking out b/c I was ending the fights in 10~15 seconds.

[Seraphus]

As far as Aura steal goes, Jailer of Love really comes to mind...

Steal Flourescence and fkn abuse that shit D:<

[Drace]

Ughh... not this stuff again. Malacite no offense, but you sound like you have never touched a Yoichi, sorry man. You can potentially barrage for retarded dmg at a 3% chance on a 5 min JA timer. Its sexy as hell when it procs, its not something to count on happening hardly ever.

Parse Namas acc before pulling estimates out of your ass on accuracy needs also please - same for saying its only good against low defense mobs.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...e/SSR2Hour.png

If you have it, the asshole in me would like to say please learn to use it properly on SAM (it's a completely different wpn between RNG and SAM). If you don't have it, for the sake of everyone, please stfu about that which you don't know.

[Sonomaa]

This is my current ranged WS gear, some of it needs some work, but otherwise I think its pretty good

input /equip head "Zha'Go's barbut"
input /equip neck "Hope torque"
input /equip body "Kirin's Osode"
input /equip hands "Seiryu's kote"
input /equip ring1 "Jalzahn's ring"
input /equip ring2 "Behemoth ring +1"
input /equip waist "Buccaneer's belt"
input /equip legs "Shura Haidate"
input /equip feet "Enkidu's leggings"




This is my current tp build gear. Last run I used the soup thing and only missed 6 sidewinders using seigan full time and pulling massive hate, runs before that I used sub.

input /equip Feet "Fuma sune-ate"
input /equip Waist "Swift Belt"
input /equip head "Askar Zucchetto"
input /equip body "Haubergeon"
input /equip legs "Byakko's haidate"
input /equip hands "Askar Manopolas";
input /equip ring1 "Sniper's Ring +1"
input /equip ring2 "Rajas ring"
input /equip neck "Justice Torque"


and yes, before you say anything, my sam merits arent even finished yet XD
(and I beat everybody in the dying and the damage categories)

[Drace]

This is my current ranged WS gear, some of it needs some work, but otherwise I think its pretty good

input /equip head "Zha'Go's barbut"
input /equip neck "Hope torque"
input /equip body "Kirin's Osode"
input /equip hands "Seiryu's kote"
input /equip ring1 "Jalzahn's ring"
input /equip ring2 "Behemoth ring +1"
input /equip waist "Buccaneer's belt"
input /equip legs "Shura Haidate"
input /equip feet "Enkidu's leggings"




This is my current tp build gear. Last run I used the soup thing and only missed 6 sidewinders using seigan full time and pulling massive hate, runs before that I used sub.

input /equip Feet "Fuma sune-ate"
input /equip Waist "Swift Belt"
input /equip head "Askar Zucchetto"
input /equip body "Haubergeon"
input /equip legs "Byakko's haidate"
input /equip hands "Askar Manopolas";
input /equip ring1 "Sniper's Ring +1"
input /equip ring2 "Rajas ring"
input /equip neck "Justice Torque"


and yes, before you say anything, my sam merits arent even finished yet XD
(and I beat everybody in the dying and the damage categories)

WS gear looks good (back I am assuming Amemet +1 since you have RNG), - TP you should try to work towards a 6hit build when you can (same delay as Hagun, very easy to get overall for Soboro) but I would say it's not quite as crucial for Soboro as it is for normal GK as you will be going over 100TP before you can WS a bit because of the extra procs. Usu feet will really open up your options for a top notch TP build.

If you can swing 2 buffs, definitely give /DRG a shot. The added melee ACC, 5% haste, double/triple procs on Jumps/ High Jumps make it an absolute machine. You'll have capped Namas ACC on just about any event you would use Soboro Yoichi SAM on with meat - I only have 4 archery merits and have no plans to increase those based on Namas ACC. I would say its as good or better in terms of acc than any normal 1 hit WS's that have insane acc boosts.

Oh and it will reverse the first part of this:

(and I beat everybody in the dying and the damage categories)

[Taint]

Ughh... not this stuff again. Malacite no offense, but you sound like you have never touched a Yoichi, sorry man. You can potentially barrage for retarded dmg at a 3% chance on a 5 min JA timer. Its sexy as hell when it procs, its not something to count on happening hardly ever.

Parse Namas acc before pulling estimates out of your ass on accuracy needs also please - same for saying its only good against low defense mobs.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...e/SSR2Hour.png

If you have it, the asshole in me would like to say please learn to use it properly on SAM (it's a completely different wpn between RNG and SAM). If you don't have it, for the sake of everyone, please stfu about that which you don't know.

That SS is just awesome, haven't seen Pwnage like that since they nerfed Apoc.

[Malacite]

So the ranged WS are the exception to the rule then?

A lot of the Relic WS seem to suffer against high level/high def mobs. I have personally seen a Hagun SAM out damage an Amano Sam using Gekko vs Kaiten, though to be fair the guy with Amano may have had gimp gear it was years ago in a dyna run.

And I'm perfectly aware of the low rate of the super crits, but that doesn't change the fact that Barrage is still a nice damage & TP tool.

SAM has a C+ rated Archery skill, and sushi isn't always gonna cut it dude. I've had some poor luck with Sidewinders before @ birds using Sushi, Shigeto & Racc gear along with my 4 archery merits. Namas is more accurate though isn't it? and IIRC has extremely low enmity generation which is why I said you use it for solid, steady damage.


And wow, that's some nice WS :O good job.

[Vodou]

So the ranged WS are the exception to the rule then?

A lot of the Relic WS seem to suffer against high level/high def mobs. I have personally seen a Hagun SAM out damage an Amano Sam using Gekko vs Kaiten, though to be fair the guy with Amano may have had gimp gear it was years ago in a dyna run.

And I'm perfectly aware of the low rate of the super crits, but that doesn't change the fact that Barrage is still a nice damage & TP tool.

SAM has a C+ rated Archery skill, and sushi isn't always gonna cut it dude. I've had some poor luck with Sidewinders before @ birds using Sushi, Shigeto & Racc gear along with my 4 archery merits. Namas is more accurate though isn't it? and IIRC has extremely low enmity generation which is why I said you use it for solid, steady damage.


And wow, that's some nice WS :O good job.

I don't think Namas gets any special treatment and as Spider-Dan calculated in another thread, under ideal conditions will will lose to slugwinder by around 30%. However, the benefit of Namas is that it does not get the accuracy penalty that slugwinder gets (so you can rip off Namas at 100TP all the time) and the really low enmity you get (so you can rip off Namas at 100 TP all the time.) Overall WS damage in a long HNM fight should favor Namas considerably.

Re: Kaiten, I would say it this way: Kaiten does not suffer on high defense mobs ---it just does not get the added hidden bonus that 7 or 8 1-hit non relic WS get. Kaiten does just fine and better than Gekko on every mob that the user can get the attack needed to drive it.

Namas gets as best as I can tell, the same +accuracy bonus that all WS get...about +100 on the first attack. It's absolutely more accurate than sidwinder and generates hate of 80 CE.

[Fridell]

Fuck Aura steal. God damned theives stealing Blaze Spikes from Qiqirn Astrologers instead of SJ cell..

Q.Q.

I was thinking the exact same thing haha, highly annoying.

[hagun]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...e/SSR2Hour.png

A-mazing. I am about 20% into Amano and I've been rather torn between GK and bow considering that Soboro is a broken tool. How would Namas fair against say kings such as Nid/KB or Ixion, etc. when it comes to damage and especially accuracy?

[Taint]

A-mazing. I am about 20% into Amano and I've been rather torn between GK and bow considering that Soboro is a broken tool. How would Namas fair against say kings such as Nid/KB or Ixion, etc. when it comes to damage and especially accuracy?

Yeah i'm 80-85% done with Amano but have decided to switch to Bow. If you read above it seems it should fair quite well on HNM, esp kited or heavy AoE mobs.

[Drace]

If you have the buffs to support it, Namas will be very close in dmg to YGK. It's hard to make an accurate comparison between Yoichi SAM and Amano SAM, but as far as raw dmg potential on anything you can melee, you should come out ahead with Yoichi. It also opens the door for a completely different play style and as Taint mentioned, shines even more on kited mobs etc. (All of this not to mention the potential it has on RNG, but I think Voudou explained that pretty well in regards to Namas vs. Sidewinder)

I still think you can't go wrong with either Amano or Yoichi, but it really depends on how you plan on using SAM and/or RNG. Taint already has Apoc so its probably an easier decision for him, but for other SAMs thinking about the 2, they both have insane dmg potential but are extremely different in terms of mechanics/ play style.

[Tsuki]

SAM has a C+ rated Archery skill, and sushi isn't always gonna cut it dude. I've had some poor luck with Sidewinders before @ birds using Sushi, Shigeto & Racc gear along with my 4 archery merits. Namas is more accurate though isn't it? and IIRC has extremely low enmity generation which is why I said you use it for solid, steady damage.

I really think you're not counting/unaware of the accuracy bonus granted on Nama's aftermath

[Drace]

It's not just the aftermath, the WS itself has the same/similar accuracy bonus as other WS's (as Vodou mentioned - estimated to be +100 ACC as can be seen on single hit WS's and the first hit of multi-hit WS's) so the impact of having lower archery skill on SAM is very much negated, and you can still maintain a very solid WS build w/o having to focus much on racc gear. As 99.9% of the focus for Yoichi SAM is on Namas, and not on utilizing it for normal ranged attacks, you won't notice the lower archery skill much at all.

[Tsuki]

I took that information into consideration before i posted and was already well aware of it ^^ but i think he's really missing the whole additional Acc provided from aftermath 1hit ws bonus is a given but he's talking about sushi (lol wtf) like as if you were shooting for tp and releasing 100tp sidewinders without an acc bonus...

[Vodou]

I really think you're not counting/unaware of the accuracy bonus granted on Nama's aftermath

I've had on my to-do list testing the accuracy effect for a long time. Sadly, haven't done a thing about it.

I'll post if /when I get to it unless either someone has posted the tests (I haven't seen them).

[Spider-Dan]

It's not just the aftermath, the WS itself has the same/similar accuracy bonus as other WS's (as Vodou mentioned - estimated to be +100 ACC as can be seen on single hit WS's and the first hit of multi-hit WS's) so the impact of having lower archery skill on SAM is very much negated, and you can still maintain a very solid WS build w/o having to focus much on racc gear.

I doubt that the single-hit ACC bonus applies to ranged WS. Ranged WS miss far too often (particularly in the early levels) for this to be likely.

[Drace]

How else would you eplain 95% Namas accuracy on things like Chariots, when I have 4 archery merits, almost no RACC gear (outside of agi) whatsoever in my WS build, using meat dishes. The few times I have had meat dishes on MNK when I hit chariot floor, I will parse ~83% melee accuracy with full H2H merits, focus and close to maxed out acc gear.

This is not a couple of parses, this is dozens of parses across all kinds of events where Namas will parse higher accuracy than even my TP builds. I have almost no doubt that there is a very high accuracy bonus on Namas w/o factoring in the aftermath.


Edit: For reference, my total RACC on Namas for SAM/WAR is 324. Don't feel like doing the math, but I'm fairly certain we can estimate if there was no accuracy boost to Namas, I shouldn't be parsing above 75% on anything from merit mobs on up. It's easy to chalk up some situations to relying on the aftermath, but in reality thats only going to work well on zergs or xp parties where there is a contant influx of mobs to keep pumping out Namas. I don't even use Soboro on Salvage bosses, and very likely not overlapping Namas with aftermath much, yet I've still never parsed below 94% on any of these events.

[Vodou]

How else would you eplain 95% Namas accuracy on things like Chariots, when I have 4 archery merits, almost no RACC gear (outside of agi) whatsoever in my WS build, using meat dishes. The few times I have had meat dishes on MNK when I hit chariot floor, I will parse ~83% melee accuracy with full H2H merits, focus and close to maxed out acc gear.

This is not a couple of parses, this is dozens of parses across all kinds of events where Namas will parse higher accuracy than even my TP builds. I have almost no doubt that there is a very high accuracy bonus on Namas w/o factoring in the aftermath.

I have to agree. I was tracking my ranged hit / misses on Ixion.

Comparing 669 ranged attacks versus 87 Namas (excluding my handful of sidewinders):

normal racc% 81.8% with 499 racc in gear / food / merits
Namas racc% 94.3% with 476 racc in gear / food / merits

So, the 669 ranged attacks provide an estimated base racc% (with 499 racc) of 81.8% +/- 2.85% at a 95% CI.

Adjusting the base racc downwards for the 23 racc gear I removed, provides an expected racc hit rate of 70.3% +/- 9.5% at a 95% CI (increasing the CI with the smaller sample.) The actual hit rate was well outside this range.

Understanding the game as we do, the 94.3% on Namas is likely being capped and we would still see a 95% hit rate even on lower racc gear.

This doesn't prove it's +100 racc bonus, but it does indicate there is a "likely" bonus of at least (95% - 70%) * 2 = +50 racc. Being essentially capped is an indicator that the real bonus could be much more than +50.

[Tsuki]

I've had on my to-do list testing the accuracy effect for a long time. Sadly, haven't done a thing about it.

I'll post if /when I get to it unless either someone has posted the tests (I haven't seen them).

perfect!