Vrtra Question

[WhysoPherbius]

So my LS has made a couple of attempts to kill this via zerg and we havent had much success. The glitch where he keeps drawing in people is fixed so that is not an issue. I have read some threads but most are speculation or I just cant find them for whatever reason. We have about 6-7 DRKS. 2 with K clubs, 2 with M kris, and 2-3 with Zangals. Rest of DD we fill with SAMS or Ridill Wars.

My question is this, is there any way to possibly stop his charm or resist it? Also how many Chainspell stunners do people that have killed it zerg style use?

Thanks for the advice in advance.

[Therin]

It sounds like you've got enough. You are doing triple SV BRD rotation, right? The DRKs especially need Madrigals and Marches.

Use two CS Stuns, but only let one stunner go at a time. This will give you nearly 2 minutes of free damage time and if it's not dead when that's up, you certainly will be.

The Zaghnal DRKs should be on another job. WAR/SAM or SAM/WAR will outperform a Zaghnal DRK over the course of the whole fight since Vrtra will last longer than Blood Weapon. Likewise your multi-hitter DRKs should have another weapon handy and Icarus Wings to boot so that when Blood Weapon wears off they can still contribute to the damage.

Compared to DL, Sarameya, Kirin, etc. the Vrtra zerg is a long fight. The fastest I've seen it go down is about 48 seconds and that was pre-nerf, with about 5 KCs and 3 Runechoppers. Nowadays it'll be about an 80-100 second fight probably, so come prepared. You can't rely on jobs that are only good during their two-hours unless you have TONS of Kraken/Octave DRKs. Chances are when these wear off, Vrtra will still have 20-30% left to go so you need jobs that can still put out big numbers.

Another thing you might consider is having a COR or two ready to swap in for the BRD after the rotation is over. If you can reset a Kraken DRK's two-hour, it will help tremendously.

Also, Feint and Angon.

[WhysoPherbius]

Yea, we always have 6 songs on and our first attempt we got it down to 18%before it raped us. Good suggestions thanks. If anyone has anymore ideas im open to them.

[Raen Ryong]

DRK will be very good even when the zerg ends since you'll be buffed to all hell.

[Therin]

DRK will be very good even when the zerg ends since you'll be buffed to all hell.

Good, yes, but not as good as WAR or SAM. If they've got the option to change, I'd put them on those jobs instead.

Ridill Wars.

Don't do this. Q_Q WAR/NIN for a zerg is just ridiculously lame.

[Killkenny]

Don't do this. Q_Q WAR/NIN for a zerg is just ridiculously lame.

No its not, Ridill war is comparable to war/sam on lower level stuff like nyzul floors and with all the buffs you get during a zerg it is similar to fighting a low level target in terms of accuracy and damage per hit. I'm not saying its better but it certainly isn't the worst situation to dual wield in.

If you have a few people outside ally make them whm or rdm so you can cure bomb the drks after blood weapon wears off, this will do more damage than having them swap to scythe/great sword. Also have the brds or a blm be on the look out for charm, if one slips through on a fully buffed drk he is going to tear your melee apart fast.

[Funkworkz]

Id splurge cash from your linkshell bank and buy the zhagnal DRKs each an m kris. itll pay itself off in 2-3 kills

[Milkster]

Ok, so there is a debate over why Mkris is better than Bzhan in a Zerg fight.

[Therin]

Ok, so there is a debate over why Mkris is better than Bzhan in a Zerg fight.

Because it's better.

Relative delays with Kris and Zaghnal are 75.3 and 96, respectively. Kris swings 2-3 times and Zaghnal swings 2-3 times. Accuracy will be capped with both.

Over 30 seconds, Kris will swing roughly 47 times and Zaghnal roughly 37 times. 200 damage a swing, you've got 9,400 damage from the Kris and 7,400 damage from the Zaghnal.

This was with very simple and quick math, but still the results are obvious.

*EDIT* For reference, assuming the same variables, Ridill will swing 39 times and do 7,800 damage. So, it's slightly better than your Zaghnal, but not nearly as good as the Kris.

[Tricen]

Isn't Vrtra squishy? Wouldn't 2h weapons out do dual wielding wars, or would Vrtra being squishy make dual wielding more viable?

[Therin]

Regardless of whether the mob is squishy or not, in terms of strictly damage, a Great Axe WAR will beat your dual-wielder every time. And in a zerg, damage is the only thing that is important.

[Raen Ryong]

Good, yes, but not as good as WAR or SAM.

Why not?

Aggressor - nullified
All 3 jobs are capable of being 6hit
Berserk - reduced impact with double minuet + angon
Meditate - meh
Zanshin - lol

SAM WS: Y/G/K are generally only amazing when you are unbuffed compared to your opponent. At the point of buffs you should be getting they should be at the point where they are decent but no longer amazing.

WAR WS: Raging Rush's crit benefit is very much reduced here although King's Justice continues to be very solid.

DRK WS: Guillotine rapes in situations like these.

DRK 2hring/zerging for the first 30 seconds even with a Bzagh and then switching back to a Scythe (potential extra 30 seconds of Souleater too) should easily outdamage WAR and SAM. The differences between them are small that the initial 2hr will push it to DRK's advantage.

[Renzy]

The 3 times we did it we used 9-10 DRKs, (2-3 KC, 1 Mkris, rest Ridill's) and rest Samurai's/Warrior's and a Thief for feint. Pretty overkill but it went down fast, most important think I would say is your chainspell stunner, if it manages to roar a DRK it can really hurt.

[Shinryuu]

SAM has Overwhelm, WAR has Fort Axe, more DA%... however, if it's a DRK with a 5-hit build it's going to be great. On my server, I know of exactly one DRK with a 5-hit build, and it's a RL friend of mine. The 5-hit DRK idea was mine and I told him how. <_<

Also, Gekko proceeds to be great even when you get SV minuets. So is Berserk. You do not cap pDIF on a monster with a level that high.

[Raen Ryong]

With 2x SV Minuet + good attack food + Angon + Dia III you're gonna be damn close to the point at which Y/G/K loses its luster.

Overwhelm just makes SAM WSs catch up to DRK ones. The Fort Axe is really strong I'll grant that though.

Wish people would stop thinking WAR and SAM only.

[Shinryuu]

Yeah DRK is fine (especially in that fight when the first 30 seconds you're top dog). But still, Gekko's going to beat Guillo on a mob that high a level, and Berserk still does its thing. 5-hit helps tremendously especially when you get madrigals.

[Therin]

I don't know how you can say that Guillotine will even remotely touch Y/G/K or RR/KJ. <_> I guess it's because you only have DRK leveled. I have DRK, DRG and WAR, and even though DRK is by far my favorite DD, I can tell you that my Guillotines will do roughly half as my KJ in a zerg situation.

The 5-hit DRK idea was mine and I told him how.

I don't see how you're getting a 5-hit build on DRK without the STP roll. Even with Bec de Faucon, which has the highest scythe delay, you'll need +32 STP (or +17 in gear), which is impossible to get unless I'm missing some key factor.

*EDIT* I guess he's using something like this? Q_Q http://ffxigear.com/?ref=14976

*Second EDIT* I forgot Carbonara. That would explain it, and would certainly help tilt the scales in your favor, since you'll have extremely high accuracy with Feint/Madrigal anyway.

[Sifer]

I don't know how you can say that Guillotine will even remotely touch Y/G/K or RR/KJ. <_> I guess it's because you only have DRK leveled. I have DRK, DRG and WAR, and even though DRK is by far my favorite DD, I can tell you that my Guillotines will do roughly half as my KJ in a zerg situation.

I have both WAR and DRK. IT seems to me that guillotine is better than both RR and KJ when you're buffed. I'll post my numbers if people want me to but I didnt really use guillotine much in a long time so Idk if anything changed.

Guillotine only sucks against mobs with really high defense (see: JoL), gekko is the exact opposite. Always thought RR (and therefore KJ) was a crappy version of guillotine. I know some ppl swear by KJ but it parses about the same as RR for me.

[Sifer]

I don't see how you're getting a 5-hit build on DRK without the STP roll. Even with Bec de Faucon, which has higher delay than any other scythe, you'll need +32 STP (or +17 in gear), which is impossible to get unless I'm missing some key factor.

You'd have to use 2 of 3 crappy items. Almah Torque, Attila's Earring or White Tathlum. oh and aurum cuirass (crappy too but not as crappy).

EDIT: and death/tri scythe

[Shinryuu]

Not KJ but RR can sometimes shine, and that's when you have 50 dDEX. For the rest RR and KJ aren't that good. The reason people think KJ beats Guillo is because they see WARs do it... while under Berserk effect. WAR also has 15% more double attack, resulting in some fine fine KJs or RRs once in a while.