adjustments to HNM

[Spekkio]

doesn't keep them from fighting it, just keeps everyone around longer watching it rage, cfh, change hands, wipe everyone in the pit, escape, run back up, fight again until MPK w/ darter flail, etc. f-ing hate DA.

[TokiFlyMeToTheMoon]

Watched some LS kill faf yesterday and they went over 30 minutes.. no noticeable difference though .

I am truly dissapointed with this potential fix because for me it was the highlight of the update. Trust SE to fuck it up.


This is how I would change things:
Fafnir, Behemoth, Adamantoise: 20 minutes gradual rage up to 30 minutes in full rage
Nid, KB, Aspid: 30 minutes gradual rage up to 40 minutes in full rage
Tiamat: 1 hr start full rage

Fixed

Our NASA missed a claim in aery for the first time in weeks and the ragtag group of people who still drag themselves up there actually got a lucky claim and killed it..

I am truly disappointed that there is any chance whatsoever of a HNM going to another LS and thought maybe this patch could further discourage anyone from wanting to camp HNMs, Trust SE not to fix claim delay and break our bot tho so we will still keep auto-claiming (thx fuzz!!! wherever you are blowing the thousands of dollars your banking off )

This is how I would change things:

Fafnir, Behemoth, Adamantoise, Nid, KB, Aspid : Pop claimed to us 25/25 times not 24/25 and give us an extra 5-10 minutes before Treasure pool falls to try to get more gil out of our buyers.

Tiamat: Packets that are readable hours or days in advance so our Nasa knows when its gonna pop ahead of time and we dont have to spend so much time camping it.

Terabyte - Toki - Seraph HNMLS

[Conrad]

I am truly disappointed that there is any chance whatsoever of a HNM going to another LS and thought maybe this patch could further discourage anyone from wanting to camp HNMs, Trust SE not to fix claim delay and break our bot tho so we will still keep auto-claiming (thx fuzz!!! wherever you are blowing the thousands of dollars your banking off )

LOL

[Xajii]

Fixed

Our NASA missed a claim in aery for the first time in weeks and the ragtag group of people who still drag themselves up there actually got a lucky claim and killed it..

I am truly disappointed that there is any chance whatsoever of a HNM going to another LS and thought maybe this patch could further discourage anyone from wanting to camp HNMs, Trust SE not to fix claim delay and break our bot tho so we will still keep auto-claiming (thx fuzz!!! wherever you are blowing the thousands of dollars your banking off )

This is how I would change things:

Fafnir, Behemoth, Adamantoise, Nid, KB, Aspid : Pop claimed to us 25/25 times not 24/25 and give us an extra 5-10 minutes before Treasure pool falls to try to get more gil out of our buyers.

Tiamat: Packets that are readable hours or days in advance so our Nasa knows when its gonna pop ahead of time and we dont have to spend so much time camping it.

Terabyte - Toki - Seraph HNMLS

Amazing. Simply amazing.

This, my friends, is why it is a dead game

[Mythe_Seraph]

Fixed

Our NASA missed a claim in aery for the first time in weeks and the ragtag group of people who still drag themselves up there actually got a lucky claim and killed it..

I am truly disappointed that there is any chance whatsoever of a HNM going to another LS and thought maybe this patch could further discourage anyone from wanting to camp HNMs, Trust SE not to fix claim delay and break our bot tho so we will still keep auto-claiming (thx fuzz!!! wherever you are blowing the thousands of dollars your banking off )

This is how I would change things:

Fafnir, Behemoth, Adamantoise, Nid, KB, Aspid : Pop claimed to us 25/25 times not 24/25 and give us an extra 5-10 minutes before Treasure pool falls to try to get more gil out of our buyers.

Tiamat: Packets that are readable hours or days in advance so our Nasa knows when its gonna pop ahead of time and we dont have to spend so much time camping it.

Terabyte - Toki - Seraph HNMLS

Toki LS

Three months, for that little accomplishment. Does it really warrant this kind of shit talk? I don't really think so.

[Silenka]

To be fair, anyone who is camping against a bot that does all their claiming for them would definitely be bitter. It's pretty sad when your options are 'pay real money for a bot' or 'don't bother coming because you're just going to waste your time even though you're paying to play just like everyone else'. Does it feel good that you're ruining an aspect of the game for others just because you don't want to give others the same fair chance you would have had you not bought a bot?

inb4 dead argument, yeah I know it's 'bot or gtfo' and HNM has been retarded that way since 2006, doesn't mean it doesn't still make me mad.

[Cutriss]

Not to turn this into another "how to fix kings" thread...but...

Rage timers are not the solution to kings. The only way to get rid of king botting is to remove the need for botting by putting them into a BC or making them poppable. All rage timers do is discourage people from trying to hold an NM to move its window back, or keep players who shouldn't really be fighting the NM anyway from doing so.

Another solution would be to make HNMs shareable fights. Everyone can run in and beat the shit out of the mob, and whatever alliance accrues the most enmity on the mob earns the pool. Then claim time doesn't matter - LS response time and killing efficiency do. Everyone's encouraged to go balls-to-the-wall so as not to lose claim on the pool, and nobody holds the mob because they simply can't.

Scrub shells no longer become a problem.

Nobody has to "camp" kings, they just keep a scout out, and when the mob pops, mobilize and try their hand at it.

Won't happen at this point, of course.

[Aksannyi]

So any conclusive information on what the adjustment was yet? I saw a few posts about it but nothing definite. Anyone? Someone go rage a Sim or something.

[Michelob]

Not to turn this into another "how to fix kings" thread...but...Another solution would be to make HNMs shareable fights. Everyone can run in and beat the shit out of the mob, and whatever alliance accrues the most enmity on the mob earns the pool. Then claim time doesn't matter - LS response time and killing efficiency do. Everyone's encouraged to go balls-to-the-wall so as not to lose claim on the pool, and nobody holds the mob because they simply can't.

And approximately how many Flails do you think would come of this?

[Gokulo]

And um... TP spam?

[Cutriss]

Didn't say it was the only thing that would need to be done. But it's just one way that I haven't seen anyone approach it.

Also, it's the risk you take.

Flails would sort of be a "mutually assured destruction" thing. If you're competing with another shell and you flail them, what's to stop someone from getting up and doing the same to you? Eventually there has to be some matter of "honor among thieves" or else nobody gets to kill it. Besides, if you're competing against someone else, you'd have your own people in front, would you not? You'd be killing them too, yes?

If you're talking about one rogue element coming in to kill everyone, well, that's what the lolGMs are for, right? I expect something like this would actually *reduce* the number of GM calls, since nobody would be calling for botting kings anymore.

I don't do kings so I don't particularly care how much it upsets the applecart, but the existing gridlock has to go.

[arshesney]

Could bring some fun, yet it will just become a rush to deploy as much KCDRKs as possible

[Aselin]

So any conclusive information on what the adjustment was yet? I saw a few posts about it but nothing definite. Anyone? Someone go rage a Sim or something.

I've been wanting to know what the adjustments were as well.

The problem though is that the Linkshells that regularly claim HNMs on any server have a lot of experience at killing them efficiently and fast before any one of them rages.

It would either take a newcomer HNM LS (aka newbie one) to determine what the adjustments were; or, have an experienced LS purposely hold the HNM until it goes into Rage mode after a specific amount of time.

I don't think any HNM LS would be willing to lose a claim just to figure what the adjustments were. So, it'll most likely be in the hands of newer, "virgin" LSes new to HNMs to figure it out for us, unfortunately.

[Yugl]

Flails would sort of be a "mutually assured destruction" thing. If you're competing with another shell and you flail them, what's to stop someone from getting up and doing the same to you? Eventually there has to be some matter of "honor among thieves" or else nobody gets to kill it. Besides, if you're competing against someone else, you'd have your own people in front, would you not? You'd be killing them too, yes?

So all I need to do is sacrifice five TA people + BLU/PLD doing Diffusion + Exuviation and Sentinal at 2% and get the items? Or better yet, just flails them at 5%.

[Cutriss]

I'm talking about enmity accrued, not have the highest enmity at 1%. Which is theoretically the same way that campaign evaluations should have worked.

[Aksannyi]

There is no way it would work. There is always one linkshell (at least in my experience) that has 300 people at the ready all the time. I have nothing against lowman shells claiming kings as long as they can kill it with relative ease (really, 12 man Faf is not hard). I've heard of some shells /random for claim on some servers. There is no way that would ever work on Hades. And claim rate between the linkshells, all of whom bot (I'm sure, they can say they don't, but they do) has been pretty even from what I've seen.

Force popping is probably the best way to handle a change to kings. I enjoy camping. Getting claim has always been thrilling to me. But I can see why force popping would work the best, you get 6 orbs (like Bv2) and go pop all of them in a matter of 45 minutes, sort the drops, rinse and repeat. It would even be less of a hassle to get buyers there because it wouldn't be daily, and the time wouldn't be changing constantly.

But I still think rage timer should be shortened, and that Tiamat and Khim should rage. Throw Cerb in there too, even though I haven't fought a Cerb since before I was even "officially" in Ex, lol.

[Cutriss]

There is no way it would work. There is always one linkshell (at least in my experience) that has 300 people at the ready all the time.

And then economics comes into play. A bunch of people at the low end of the totem pole put in a whole bunch of time and don't get squat because the rewards tend to be top-heavy, so they splinter off and start feeding on the weak points until they get bigger themselves.

Plus, since the mobs all reset at the same time for the most part, you have to pick and choose your battles. You can't dominate the Aery *and* BD *and* Attohwa at the same time, you're too vulnerable.

It also resets the playing field for the non-HNM crowd that focuses less on dominating every pop of every HNM and just flirts with the occasional Tiamat - The groups that don't compete in claim but can certainly compete in efficiency/numbers.

[ringthree]

Fixed

Our NASA missed a claim in aery for the first time in weeks and the ragtag group of people who still drag themselves up there actually got a lucky claim and killed it..

I am truly disappointed that there is any chance whatsoever of a HNM going to another LS and thought maybe this patch could further discourage anyone from wanting to camp HNMs, Trust SE not to fix claim delay and break our bot tho so we will still keep auto-claiming (thx fuzz!!! wherever you are blowing the thousands of dollars your banking off )

This is how I would change things:

Fafnir, Behemoth, Adamantoise, Nid, KB, Aspid : Pop claimed to us 25/25 times not 24/25 and give us an extra 5-10 minutes before Treasure pool falls to try to get more gil out of our buyers.

Tiamat: Packets that are readable hours or days in advance so our Nasa knows when its gonna pop ahead of time and we dont have to spend so much time camping it.

Terabyte - Toki - Seraph HNMLS

Bravo. Great comedy. I approve. LOL

[Yugl]

If they ever implement that Enmity system, I'm going to start doing shout Fafnirs.

[Therin]

A very easy solution has been suggested numerous times.

HNM spawns yellow. He stays yellow for a full TEN seconds. In that span of time, ANYONE can act on him. At the end of the ten seconds, it goes red to a random person who acted on him, determined server-side.

Simple and easy, and a perfect system. This kills botting completely and puts everyone on a level playing field. The only problem with it that I see would be everyone bringing two or three mules to have extra chances, but in the end it would still be a fair, indifferent dice roll to determine who gets the mob and the only advantage would be in the numbers.