adjustments to HNM

[Aksannyi]

Actually it would make kings better. Oh, the lulz of certain shells claiming and then attempting to kill a raged Fafnir.

[BRP]

If that's the idea, just make Fafnir spawn with rage and remain rage'd forever.

[urat]

Yes, that would be a great idea...

Oh wait, all that would do would make HNM worse, as people would just hold the NMs for 30 mins after claim for a greater drop rate, giving people more intent to try and MPK for claim/get angry for holding etc, and I'm sure that's what everyone wants...

Mayhaps, but honestly why would you hold it when you can slowly whittle it down to 1~2% then wait the last 5 mins or so for it to rage then finish it off?

On the other hand that would be exploiting kind of, so maybe have the monster regen to full the moment it rages?

Or as BRP said, maybe have 2 different fafs, one that spawns normal and rages at 30, and a second rarer faf that spawns raged that has high drop rates, but depops if he has no claim after 30 minutes.

In other words the super faf would hang out for 30 mins and dissapear if unclaimed, but if claimed then lost 30 mins later, would immeaditly depop.

[nekura]

Well I don't think it's a 30min limit guys. We just had a LS claim Fafnir/Sleep hold and kill past the 30min mark (Or very close at least). Didn't seem like any change in behavior or stats.

No, seems like the change is what someone mentioned before, the build-up to full strength rage is a lot quicker/instant. Watched someone rage KA yesterday and they got smacked down a few seconds after the 20 minute mark. Raged KAs are probably my favorite thing in the game, nothing like a little crab running around killing everyone (including me for trying to claim too early >_>).

[Daedalus]

The single easiest way to fix kings, if you even think is it broken, is to have them pop completely randomly. Forgetting the classic; "Computers can't make truly random numbers!", they can do pretty well at it, given enough seeds. Computer theory aside, lets look at the problem.

People know when NMs will pop based on their ToD, and can therefore only waste 3hours of their time, pointing a bot at a specific mob. If the NMs pop truly randomly, varying from days or only hours between pops, then its a game of who can get to the NM fastest. And holding? Wouldn't matter, since the ToD doesn't affect its next spawn.

Bots become useless, since even if they sit a mule in there all day, anyone else can and just watch it pop and call in re-enforcements. First man their triumphs again.

Yes this could mean over the course of a single week, less faffys, but in the same week you could get 3 KBs. And whats that? Not happy cause you "never get to fight it any more", because of "stupid popping system"? How about people who have "never faught it" because of "stupid botters"?

Kings is flawed cause of its predictability. You know when something's gonna happen you can plan for it, and you can plan to cheat for it.

Random mullings over. You might like this or hate it, either way Kings is fucked and always will be. If I made an MMO it'd all be instanced. If I were given lead of XI, that's what I'd do to fix it.

[TripleX]

Actually it would make kings better. Oh, the lulz of certain shells claiming and then attempting to kill a raged Fafnir.

get it to 1% and hold until rage?

[Aksannyi]

get it to 1% and hold until rage?

You're not too familiar with the linkshells on Hades, are you? Some of them can - and do - wipe at 1% on a regular basis.

[Drako]

KA raged today on remora @20 min mark 15%, killed thf+rdm and a apoc drk that came to help after it raged, right after it went yellow someone claimed and it was already unraged, i though it unraged only after hp went up 1 tick.. anyway, this is the way it works now (at least on KA)

[Killkenny]

Linkshell on Siren claimed and held nid while waiting for backup yesterday, and when backup came, their backup immediatly CFH'd. Anyway, to the point, they held it for about 45mins total, took 2-3 mins to get CFH off, and we claimed immediatly with nid @90% HP, without waiting for the head to nod (which is what we believe is the indicator of timer reset?).

After 6-7 mins, with 6-7mins left on rage timer, we noticed increased resists, and melees hitting significantly weaker. Now it could've just been us being excited about potential rage and the CFH hilarity, but it seemed different from nids normal "wings up" damage resistances.

Is it possible it starts to rage before the 1h mark now, and is fully raged on the 1h? instead of starting on 1h and taking 5 more minutes to hit the fully raged mark?

We took the last 24% down in 2 skillchains, in about 90 seconds, all blm ele seal'd for the last one. Killed it with 1min on rage timer, didn't really wanna take any risks

What you noticed was wings up mode which it does throughout the fight fairly regularly. When its wings go up (can't remember if there is a 2hr animation but probably I don't see it because of lag) melees will almost always hit for 0-10 damage aslong as they don't miss because its evasion goes up a lot also. It will resist nukes and enfeebles a lot more and it can hit for 500+ on a buffed tank.

Wings usually don't stay up for very long so its not usually something you would notice but kings definately don't rage any quicker than 30mins/1hr.

It was inevitable that any thread containing discussion on any aspect of kings would eventually end up being about how to fix the botting/time issue with it. None of these ideas are new and rehashing them at every oppurtunity just shits up threads that might contain some useful information (like what was actually changed in the previous update).

[Damane]

The single easiest way to fix kings, if you even think is it broken, is to have them pop completely randomly. Forgetting the classic; "Computers can't make truly random numbers!", they can do pretty well at it, given enough seeds. Computer theory aside, lets look at the problem.

People know when NMs will pop based on their ToD, and can therefore only waste 3hours of their time, pointing a bot at a specific mob. If the NMs pop truly randomly, varying from days or only hours between pops, then its a game of who can get to the NM fastest. And holding? Wouldn't matter, since the ToD doesn't affect its next spawn.

Bots become useless, since even if they sit a mule in there all day, anyone else can and just watch it pop and call in re-enforcements. First man their triumphs again.

Yes this could mean over the course of a single week, less faffys, but in the same week you could get 3 KBs. And whats that? Not happy cause you "never get to fight it any more", because of "stupid popping system"? How about people who have "never faught it" because of "stupid botters"?

Kings is flawed cause of its predictability. You know when something's gonna happen you can plan for it, and you can plan to cheat for it.

Random mullings over. You might like this or hate it, either way Kings is fucked and always will be. If I made an MMO it'd all be instanced. If I were given lead of XI, that's what I'd do to fix it.

no, just make einherjar a max 18 man event (scale it down for fucks sake) and there you have the fix for it. I still dont understand why SE did set up einherjar for 24+ people when everything they have done in ToAU pointed towards lowmaning shit...

[Michelob]

no, just make einherjar a max 18 man event (scale it down for fucks sake) and there you have the fix for it. I still dont understand why SE did set up einherjar for 24+ people when everything they have done in ToAU pointed towards lowmaning shit...

I think you answered your own question. Also, if Ridill/Dring were added as extremely rare Odin drops none of this would even be a discussion.

[Plow]

I always thought, if they were to keep kings the same they could always add 1-2 HNM per King and have them pop on the same timer in far away zones. Spread out drops or add new abjurations ones as many jobs have little use for the whole system. Though I think it would be pointless if they didn't demand an 15-18 man alliance, so difficulty increase would be nice.

This sounds like a good idea at first, but it falls into the same issues as CoP Wyrms and Ixion/Sandworm--

You have to account for the fact that no matter how terribly unfun and ridiculously pain in the ass a mob is to camp, people won't stop camping all of them, they'll just complain about how much it sucks to camp while spending their entire in-game existence doing exactly that.

[thetruepandagod]

Honestly the best thing i have read is just having everyone being able to cast on fafnir for 10seconds after it pops and then after the 10 seconds ends it will randomly become claimed to someone who had cast on it, this would of course mean a million mules in DA and massive amounts of people but i would rather see more people in DA then more people with bots. Everything else that is being mentioned would involve changing a lot of things be it multi zone stuff or completely wipe windows this seems like it could work and would be the least invasive in regards to what we are used to.

Edit: i personally with they brought back the enfeebling nerf to all hnm's in the game stuff was actually fun to kill then only thing that actually became a lot more difficult was holding KV

[Crab_Cake]

A simple fix: make King Behemoth, Fafnir, Nidhogg, etc lottery pops of Wild Rabbits, Tiny Mandragoras, etc. Once it spawns, it spawns claimed to the person that killed it.

If the person that popped it(by killing the right place holder) dies, it will depop.

Great way to fix the game. Also SE really needs more hate now cause they don't have enough hate yet(I mean seriously, everyone complains about the game but yet why are we still here? Has SE chained us to this game somehow?) .

[Alvinho]

A fix for Zilart Kings would be for them to have some sort of Shikigami Weapon-ish behavior, but instead of popping invisible, it would just pop green, and after 10-60 seconds, become yellow. This would give people plenty of time to actually target it once it popped, and mash their little hearts out, hopefully evening out the playing field.

Since I don't know how those claiming bots work, this idea could be made of fail, but it sure looks good (to me) on paper.

[Delirium]

world spawns are always broken. You have ground kings that people bot claim, shit like sandworm that people scan for hours on end and rush to claim and kite around, or even in WoW when people would rush for Lord Kazzak or the green dragons. Force spawn/instance seems like the only way to do it really.

[byte]

A fix for Zilart Kings would be for them to have some sort of Shikigami Weapon-ish behavior, but instead of popping invisible, it would just pop green, and after 10-60 seconds, become yellow. This would give people plenty of time to actually target it once it popped, and mash their little hearts out, hopefully evening out the playing field.

Since I don't know how those claiming bots work, this idea could be made of fail, but it sure looks good (to me) on paper.

I don't see what this changes.

[deathdealer]

Should be a 15-30sec timer after the mob has popped where you can /random for the claim.
The highest random would win the claim.
Only lvl 70+ ppl can random.
Only 1 /random per person.
If the group that claims wipes, the mob would go yellow, and you would have another 15-30secs window to /random.
You could still bot the /random, but would be no different than typing /random, and the lvl cap would stop LS's from flooding the zones with lvl 1 mules.

Big LS's would still have a slight advantage by sheer numbers, but would be more fair to claim by any group.

[Hanyoko]

Thousands of ideas have been spewed out on how to resolve this. Years have passed and the developers will still likely remain stubborn about addressing old content. Heck hasnt it been over a year to just get force pop ??? down to znm repop times? Granted changing that will probably make Ice spells heal undead.

[Aksannyi]

It's clear they're not going to change claiming/pop methods, basically, just keep botting until the game ends.