Yonin's 'Ninja Tool Expertise' broken?

[blackmail]

Because GMs can ban/warn you for doing shit like Scaring Ixion. GMs have power to ban you. The fact they dont all follow the same rules as each other, or dont even know whats bannable and whats not, is fucking retarded.

Asking if something can get you banned or not is not the same as asking the secret to AV. It';s not about mechanics, it's about if they can punish you for XYZ. Use your brain befor you let your internet rage take over and make silly posts.

I completely disagree. More posts have been devoted to idiotic gm statements on these forums than relics posted in the upgraded thread. I believe that gms are the equivalent of a temporary employment agency staff. They know little, and are believed to have the ability to make decisions and give advice about policy. These people push buttons!!!! Their not paid to think or to give advice!!!!
Think of a gm like Homer Simpson. His job is to push buttons. Do we ask him what will happen if I put dirty socks into the nuclear reactor? No. If you have a problem that can be solved by homer Simpson pushing buttons... Call a gm.

[Tulun]

Well considering you get a 30% damage boost with Ninjitsu in Innin.. this could very well be a tanking buff for NIN.

Yonin adds so much enmity it's badshit. other wiki says 30... decreasing to 10 over time... I wonder how accurate that is.

[ringthree]

Impossible. I spent the whole five minutes with Yonin up, casting several different spells. I started with the same as I ended with.

That doesn't make it impossible. LOL

It should be noted that my experience was after the emergency update yesterday.

[Eldelphia]

So, they've killed the NIN tool market?

[Buttons]

Wow if this truly stays the way it is now I might actually consider levelling NIN to 75 one day. Always thought it was an interesting jobs but the tool costs kept me away from the job.

[ringthree]

So, they've killed the NIN tool market?

Because no other jobs sub NIN?

[Egon]

Because no other jobs sub NIN?

With the +6INT Wesket, I think a lot of markets will be reborn.

[byte]

[Current Known Issues]

- Upon the use of weapon skill "Catastrophe," the additional effect will not exert properly.

- While job ability "Yonin" is in effect, Ninja Tools will not be spent upon the use of Ninjutsu.


It's getting fixed. Also, here come the bans for "exploiting glitches" etc.

But yay for Catastrophe! :D

ps. What the fuck is wrong with SE? We knew this shit almost as soon as update was finished but they don't read BG and didn't know when they did yesterdays maint. Their incompetence is so incredibly frustrating.. If they just read BG their shit would get fixed 10x as fast. See also, Salvage.

[Fridell]

SE is just making a big joke outta themselves, several people reported about these broken things when the update was done, and it takes days for them to highlight it and call maintenance.

[Gergall]

it takes days for them to highlight it and call maintenance.

In all fairness, less than 2 days has passed.

[byte]

In all fairness, less than 2 days has passed.

Which is 1-2 days too slow in my opinion.

If they can fix lolcurrybuns (And god knows why that took TWO HOURS) why can't they fix something far more threatening?

[BRP]

Which is 1-2 days too slow in my opinion.

If they can fix lolcurrybuns (And god knows why that took TWO HOURS) why can't they fix something far more threatening?

No one here is capable of answering that.

[Destinye]

Which is 1-2 days too slow in my opinion.

If they can fix lolcurrybuns (And god knows why that took TWO HOURS) why can't they fix something far more threatening?

You and Fridell would never last in game design.

Anyway, it doesn't take 2 hours to "fix a simple issue", most of the time is server shutdown and restart and dealing with all that comes in between.

[Not Kuno]

Pretty sure curry buns were done instantly because it was just a simple number change (sale value to npc) while apoc not draining is obvious a bit harder to fix in a day. It's not like they arn't going to fix it. Chill out.

[ringthree]

You and Fridell would never last in game design.

Anyway, it doesn't take 2 hours to "fix a simple issue", most of the time is server shutdown and restart and dealing with all that comes in between.

Not only that, but they don't tell us half of the things they do when they have an server restart.

Anyone that says that they "shouldn't have these problems to begin with" or keep saying that it's "spaghetti code" really have no idea what they are talking about.

Not only does FFXI's server up-time absolutely destroy almost everything else in the market, but most problems are fixed relatively quickly.

People that complain about fixes after an update are basically saying that they would prefer if SE just left problems in the game instead of fixing them. Suggesting that a program of this size and complexity won't or shouldn't have issues after an update is so freaking out of touch with reality.

[rithridan]

well i'd definately prefer if they left yonin unfixed

[Cutriss]

Suggesting that a program of this size and complexity won't or shouldn't have issues after an update is so freaking out of touch with reality.

Nobody's saying that. It's more of a matter of:

1. Problems being blatant and widespread that should have been caught in testing. IE - the decay rate of NTE in Yonin. It's one of the characteristics of the ability. Did they just skip it? The NPC price of new food being created - someone had to manually set that. They don't introduce new saleable items into the game that often, so I would expect that they would have individuals in charge of determining pricing on those items. So did they just do it wrong? Did nobody try to sell any of their items on Atomos to see that the NPC prices matched up with what they should have been?

2. Problems coming up in areas completely unrelated to the components that have been changed. Nothing was adjusted in terms of aftermaths, relic weapons, added effects, or weapon skills, so why did one suddenly stop working properly?

Some of us *do* software engineering for a living, and we recognize these problems as being indicative of a larger process issue. The Mog House storage thing? Sure, I can understand that. Not a huge deal. Dialogue issues preventing NPCs from giving quests or such? I can understand that. But stuff like this - it's novice mistakes.

It's all perfectly sensible. I think you guys just exist in one big echo chamber where BRP trolls and you play devil's advocate.

[ringthree]

Nobody's saying that. It's more of a matter of:

1. Problems being blatant and widespread that should have been caught in testing. IE - the decay rate of NTE in Yonin. It's one of the characteristics of the ability. Did they just skip it? The NPC price of new food being created - someone had to manually set that. They don't introduce new saleable items into the game that often, so I would expect that they would have individuals in charge of determining pricing on those items. So did they just do it wrong? Did nobody try to sell any of their items on Atomos to see that the NPC prices matched up with what they should have been?

Problems are blatant and widespread? You are looking at the in-game functioning of one aspect of a brand new ability. The programming that caused this problem is probably no more than the smallest difference. They add new items that can be sold all the time...

You are whining over very small issues, and ones that are being fixed quickly.

You have no clue what they do to test things. You are just making assumptions based on the things you see in the game. You have no idea how these things are programmed.

2. Problems coming up in areas completely unrelated to the components that have been changed. Nothing was adjusted in terms of aftermaths, relic weapons, added effects, or weapon skills, so why did one suddenly stop working properly?

Completely unrelated? So you know what the development team is doing all the time? You know how all the different systems interact.

No. You don't know anything at all. You don't know how the new Augments work with added effects, or anything else about their programming at all.

Some of us *do* software engineering for a living, and we recognize these problems as being indicative of a larger process issue. The Mog House storage thing? Sure, I can understand that. Not a huge deal. Dialogue issues preventing NPCs from giving quests or such? I can understand that. But stuff like this - it's novice mistakes.

It's all perfectly sensible. I think you guys just exist in one big echo chamber where BRP trolls and you play devil's advocate.

I just love software engineers that say stuff like this. You know some code, but you don't know all code. You don't know the three different structures that this game (the only game in existence I believe) that integrates three different platforms with different languages into one.

I love how all my programming friends ALWAYS say that every other programmer is an "idiot" because they don't do things the way that they do it. Even if they know nothing about the language or anything else about the programming they are criticizing.

Being a mechanic for Toyota doesn't mean you know how to fix a jet engine. Your experiences with software programming doesn't mean anything in this context.

I don't know much about programming, but I do think that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

In the end, these are small issues, you have no clue what caused them and they are getting fixed. Why are you bitching again?

[Deimos]

Cutriss's post is right on, if maybe a little over-dramatic. Yes, there is a pretty large history of bugs, but at least they're generally minor bugs in the big picture. But there's no doubt that SE's testing "procedures" are extremely flawed. There needs to be a checklist for things like NPC price when new items are added, and there clearly isn't. You'd think that after incidents like the one where an NPC would buy an item for a higher price than it sold it for, they'd have put something in place to make sure that NPC prices were vetted properly. Never mind all the other stuff that could be checked automatically by unit/regression testing, etc. The Yonin bug is pretty ridiculous, you shouldn't be adding a new ability as one of the (few) significant things in your patch, and not even test that the ability works right.

ringthree's post, on the other hand, is somewhat further from the mark. I enjoyed the part where you tried to tell Cutriss that he had no idea what he was talking about, then implied that the cross-platform nature of the game somehow causes bugs like these ones. When you're trying to tell someone that they don't know what they're talking about, it's usually best not to follow it up with a statement that shows that you know much less. Bugs like NPC buy-price problems and Yonin never taking a tool are tied to the server code, not the clients'. The game could run on one platform or one hundred, but the server code would still be telling all the interfaces the wrong information.

I do agree that FFXI has extremely good uptime though, it's very rare that the servers go down without it being a pre-planned maintenance. There are almost never any "oh shit the game is down" incidents, it's always "all servers will be going down in 2 hours". Seems to me that SE's network/infrastructure team is a lot better than their development/testing teams are.

To be actually on-topic, I'm a little disappointed that this turned out to be a bug. I was quite enjoying never using any tools unless I forgot to reactivate the ability or it wore off mid-cast. I suppose it was a little too good to be true though, considering that Yonin is going to be the main ability that NINs are keeping up all the time, Innin is totally useless for soloing, standard xp (not merit) parties, etc. I could see Innin getting some more use if these worked like Seigan/Hasso, but the inability to switch back and forth between them quickly makes Innin useless for any situations where you're expected to be the one tanking.

[Gergall]

Which is 1-2 days too slow in my opinion.

It is too slow, but there is no need to go Michael Moore on the facts. SE was not "days late" in highlighting the Yonin issue. I know you weren't the one who made that claim.

ringthree - there is a difference between a programming issue and a process issue. SE has been making the "wrong NPC sale price" mistake since at least CoP release if not earlier. They make this mistake very, very frequently.

You don't need to know any programming to know that it is not necessary to put the faulty sale prices on the live servers in order to discover and resolve this issue. There should be a process in place to prevent this from occuring, but it's not there. That is a legitimate gripe with SE.

I agree about the Cata glitch. With all the new augmented weapon additional effects, they probably had to make some adjustments to the way added effects work. They can't be expected to retest every single weapon with an add effect on it, so I think this type of gltich - followed by a swift acknowledgment and fix - is understandable.