Yonin's 'Ninja Tool Expertise' broken?

[ringthree]

I may not know what causes a problem in game, but I am sure that no one else here does either.

You don't know how the NPC pricing function works in the programming. You don't even know if it was just a missed typo. Saying the mis-pricing of 1 set of items which was fixed within 24 hours proves that their testing is "extremely flawed" is just laughable.

My point isn't about any of this anyway. It is that some people are bitching over the tiniest things and acting like someone from SE just raped your mother.

They are never going to catch everything in an update, ever. If you don't like the fact that something is going to be glitched for one or two days then just quit playing all MMO's, hell quit playing video games.

Find something real to bitch about at least.

[Tulun]

Shame.. hopefully it's still potent enough (along with merits) to make it worthwhile.

[Gergall]

I'm not bitching at all, just arguing with you.

I completely agree that the pricing issue might be much more complicated than a simple text change. It might really be a big deal to fix it.

The problem is that they make this mistake over and over and over and over. They haven't put a process in place to prevent this before it goes live, even after experiencing this problem many times. That is a legitimate gripe.

[ringthree]

Shame.. hopefully it's still potent enough (along with merits) to make it worthwhile.

Have you used it? I really couldn't care less about the NTE effect compared to the rest of the effects it has.

[ringthree]

I'm not bitching at all, just arguing with you.

I completely agree that the pricing issue might be much more complicated than a simple text change. It might really be a big deal to fix it.

The problem is that they make this mistake over and over and over and over. They haven't put a process in place to prevent this before it goes live. That is a legitimate gripe.

And that is my point as to why you are bitching and not arguing. The idea that a game of this size and age only has one or two glitches after an update is actually pretty amazing. It is not a legitimate gripe at all to suggest that the game should be perfect after every update. In fact, it's quite ludicrous. Problems and glitches are inevitable no matter how good the quality control.

Legitimate gripes: Lack of content in updates, poor mini-expansions, no communication with the player base, horrible GM's, ancient UI, PS2 limitations, crappy macro system and the list could go on for hours.

Not legitimate gripes: ZOMG, they took the server down for two hours! ZOMG, how could they get the NPC price on buns wrong! ZOMG, a brand new JA doesn't work perfectly!

There are tons of problems with FFXI, and most people deal with them and move on. Crying about Catastrophe not giving the additional Drain effect for two days, or that the new NIN JA is working too well? You guys are making Aurik look sane and calm.

[Gergall]

I don't appreciate the words being placed in my mouth.

You continue to ignore the only point I have been trying to make. They make the SAME mistake over and over.

[Spider-Dan]

Hey, at least your job was useful for anything other than solo and campaign for the last 2 years or so...

Um, over the last two years, NIN tanks are still (and continuously have been) more useful than RNG, who was completely shunned pre-ZNM and only recently became Extremely Useful for ACP final fight.

[Xno Kappa]

It's not really about coding, it's the fact the Yonin glitch is blatant. It would've taken them all but 5 minutes to test it out on their atomos server and realized something was wrong. I think that's what irks everyone the most.

[Tulun]

Have you used it? I really couldn't care less about the NTE effect compared to the rest of the effects it has.

Oh, it's still awesome, just the free nin tools was a huge perk. I enjoy NIN tanking I just wish it was as cheap as RDMs or PLDs.

Hopefully nothing else about the JA was 'incorrect'...

I must say NIN tanking might make a come back or become a good contender. I love NIN but PLD has gotten so much beefier over the last 2 years (Atonement, Reprisal, different tanking gear coming out, etc). My co-tank PLD yesterday had to try a lot harder to equalize hate... was nice

[ringthree]

Oh, it's still awesome, just the free nin tools was a huge perk. I enjoy NIN tanking I just wish it was as cheap as RDMs or PLDs.

Hopefully nothing else about the JA was 'incorrect'...

I must say NIN tanking might make a come back or become a good contender. I love NIN but PLD has gotten so much beefier over the last 2 years (Atonement, Reprisal, different tanking gear coming out, etc). My co-tank PLD yesterday had to try a lot harder to equalize hate... was nice

It definitely makes a big difference. I still think that NIN doesn't have the ability to take a few extra hits that PLD does, but at least I don't have to be that guy that stands behind the mob for people to SATA on.

[ringthree]

It's not really about coding, it's the fact the Yonin glitch is blatant. It would've taken them all but 5 minutes to test it out on their atomos server and realized something was wrong. I think that's what irks everyone the most.

Lack of content in the update irks me. A beneficial glitch that is going to be fixed in a few days will never irk me.

[Gergall]

Lack of content in the update irks me. A beneficial glitch that is going to be fixed in a few days will never irk me.

I miss my Flee Mazurka. Best...day...ever.

THF SATA from any angle and COR minigun quickdraw were also good times.

[ringthree]

I miss my Flee Mazurka. Best...day...ever.

THF SATA from any angle and COR minigun quickdraw were also good times.

I was quite pleased when the two-handed update was complete borked. Not only was I mauling things with a Soboro, but I got to laugh at Aurik's little pity party. It was win-win for me.

[reccaa]

Well considering you get a 30% damage boost with Ninjitsu in Innin.. this could very well be a tanking buff for NIN.

Yonin adds so much enmity it's badshit. other wiki says 30... decreasing to 10 over time... I wonder how accurate that is.

Kaeko published that... if you don't know who is he/she, then, well.. no comment

[Xno Kappa]

Lack of content in the update irks me. A beneficial glitch that is going to be fixed in a few days will never irk me.

Your missing my point. If they don't take the time to do a simple live test of their coding then what else are/aren't they quite possibly doing? I'm not a programmer but it just screams common sense to try something yourself first before putting it out there.

[Amastacia]

Um, over the last two years, NIN tanks are still (and continuously have been) more useful than RNG, who was completely shunned pre-ZNM and only recently became Extremely Useful for ACP final fight.

I'd beg to differ.

Particular individuals have continued to tank (probably most notably Rich). Shells lacking in geared/skilled PLDs have occasionally continued to utilize NINs. Certain small groups have continued using NIN as a result of limitations on job availability.

Past that though, at least on Asura, it's been PLD-onry. I can't think of any high-profile shells other than Rich's group on Garuda that continued to embrace NIN as a regular main tank.

The reduction in ranged penalty definitely did RNG a huge favor, but they were still popular (whether ideal or not) for many fights that benefited from DDing at a distance. I will readily agree that a lot of RNGs retired the job after the original nerfs and it was useful in a niche at best, but I can think of fights where people wanted a RNG or RNGs, and none where people wanted a NIN or NINs.

Edit: I'm not considering things like solo and meriting in the above. Extreme solos are done by a relative handful of people, and at this point competent soloing is possible by a great many jobs. Meriting is a huge clusterfuck due to player ignorance (e.g. NIN invite rate is much higher than it should be due to outdated views on jobs). If you want to include absolutely everything, maybe you have an argument, but BG's always had more emphasis on endgame, where NIN has been dead as a doornail.

[Spider-Dan]

Particular individuals have continued to tank (probably most notably Rich). Shells lacking in geared/skilled PLDs have occasionally continued to utilize NINs. Certain small groups have continued using NIN as a result of limitations on job availability.

Past that though, at least on Asura, it's been PLD-onry. I can't think of any high-profile shells other than Rich's group on Garuda that continued to embrace NIN as a regular main tank.

The reduction in ranged penalty definitely did RNG a huge favor, but they were still popular (whether ideal or not) for many fights that benefited from DDing at a distance. I will readily agree that a lot of RNGs retired the job after the original nerfs and it was useful in a niche at best, but I can think of fights where people wanted a RNG or RNGs, and none where people wanted a NIN or NINs.

While PLD has become preferred, NIN is still acceptable, and (as your mention) job availability issues meant that NIN still got to ride in the front of the bus.

Pre-ZNM, RNG was simply useless for the vast majority of the game, and (being a DD) RNG will never benefit from job availability issues. There is no point where someone would say, "hmmm, we don't have our varsity SAM available... let's skip all the WAR/DRK/DRG/MNK/THF we could get, and bring a RNG instead."

[Amastacia]

Odin? Kited Kirin (which a lot of shells still do)? Small-group JoL where you don't have the healing to back up a bunch of melees eating WSs after hate shifts?

That's 3 things right off the top of my head where I've heard people with multiple melee DD jobs told to come RNG.

May not be the best way to do any of those fights, but entirely workable and depending on who/how many are available, may in fact be the best compromise.

Edit: The only thing I've ever done where there was a zomg come NIN was our old 8 person mercenary Omega group, and that was purely because to keep enough BLMs to DD, there was only 1 75 PLD available. A second PLD would've been used if more of the 8 had BLM leveled.

[Tulun]

It definitely makes a big difference. I still think that NIN doesn't have the ability to take a few extra hits that PLD does, but at least I don't have to be that guy that stands behind the mob for people to SATA on.

I think NIN has a couple things going for it; EVA tanking might become a bit easier on some mobs as well as 4 shadows. I think their hate holding ability will easily exceed PLDs now (it could before but only with extreme effort on good plds).

They still need more support imo though... and PLD can DD while tanking...

[ringthree]

Your missing my point. If they don't take the time to do a simple live test of their coding then what else are/aren't they quite possibly doing? I'm not a programmer but it just screams common sense to try something yourself first before putting it out there.

I know what your point is. One glitch does not mean that they don't test anything, it just means that something slipped through. Glitches always slip through. Thus why I say that it is ludicrous to think you will ever get a perfect patch. It doesn't happen in FFXI, it doesn't happen in MMOs, it doesn't happen in video games and it doesn't happen in life.