Randomerest Question Thread III: This Time It's Random

[Thorny]

A Buckler can achieve a higher block rate on higher level opponents with less shield skill gear

Fortunately, shield gear should only really be used during ichi or during oshit macro.

opening up more slots for more haste

Nobody gives a shit about haste on ichi. Even then, you could macro it in near the end of the spell if you were OCD about it.

while also giving you more TP from shield blocks

Same block rate as a size 3 with a proper setup.

letting you use Atonement more

lol.

You're an idiot.

[Ultimagi]

Because Paladin/Ninja is the entire game? Don't call me an idiot.

[Thorny]

Fuck yea new sig. The vast majority of things tanked PLD/RDM require an aegis for it to be an improvement on /NIN.. in which case I hope you'd use that over a Simba Buckler. The major exception I can think of is JoL, but shield is entirely irrelevant there so..

[Ultimagi]

You're a fool to think that /Warrior and /Red Mage are useless in most situations. Careful, without your old signature, people might forget that you're "not" an account buyer. If you had any sense of decency, you would delete my old friend's character and actually bother leveling your own account.

[Thorny]

You're a fool to think that /Warrior and /Red Mage are useless in most situations. Careful, without your old signature, people might forget that you're "not" an account buyer. If you had any sense of decency, you would delete my old friend's character and actually bother leveling your own account.

I didn't buy shit, the guy was in my ls for a year before he quit and gave it to me and you still think I paid why? Name a situation PLD should sub war or red mage besides JoL or wyrms w/ aegis, please.

[ShiggidySchwah]

ultimagi more like ultimad

[Max™]

Provoke is not a hate tool, that is all.

[TheTaru]

Leaving the Kingdom of Hurrrrrdurrrrr for a moment, anyone have any idea about the proc rate on Kageboshi - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more ? I doubt it's high enough to be of any real use, but just curious.

[Yugl]

Spoiler: show

So, as I mentioned in the Random Question thread, I want to begin to try to figure out how exactly DEF is converted to "Attack" for the purposes of Cannonball damage. Nothing I have yet is even close to being conclusive, but Yugl, in that thread, suggested just getting started and posting the method I used here in case others want to pick it up and help out, which seems like a good idea.

So I went up and got 110 cannonball values against EM steelshells, matching my DEF to their DEF, and my STR to -10 their VIT. My friend, nivlakian, helped out by hasting and refreshing me, sleeping the crabs between spells, and dispelling after scissor guard and metallic body to save me MP. This is what I have so far.

Relevant Crab stats: Lv75, 96 VIT, 366 DEF (as per Studio Gobli �G�f�[�^--although I confirmed the DEF value using /check, I'm taking their word on the VIT)

Relevant BLU stats: 75BLU/37NIN, 292 Blue Magic, 86 STR, 80 VIT, 366 DEF. 5/5 Physical Potency (just in case it doesn't actually do what they say it does lol)

Predicted Base damage:
D: 2*[292*0.11] + 3 = 67
fSTR: STR-VIT = -10 should give fSTR=0
WSC: [[86*0.5 + 80*0.5]*0.83] = 68
fTP: 1.75 (CA was never used)
[(67+0+68)*1.75] = 236

Observed damage:
Low: 179 (~0.758 PDIF)
High: 323 (~1.369 PDIF)
Mean: 248.85 (~1.054 PDIF)

Data Record (second column is frequency):

179	1
181	1
183	1
184	1
186	2
190	1
191	1
195	1
198	1
201	1
202	1
207	2
210	1
216	1
217	1
218	1
219	2
220	1
223	1
226	1
227	1
233	1
236	4
237	5
238	2
239	1
240	4
241	4
242	3
243	6
244	2
245	4
246	4
247	5
250	1
252	1
256	1
257	2
259	2
262	1
263	2
266	2
271	2
273	1
274	1
275	1
278	2
282	3
285	1
287	1
295	2
296	1
298	3
301	2
302	1
303	1
305	1
307	2
312	1
313	1
315	1
323	1

So that's what I have so far. I think next I'd like to try it at a higher DEF value and start to see how it scales as player DEF exceeds mob DEF. I'm not sure how to interpret what those PDIF values would correspond to as "Attack" for regular melee hits/WSs, if someone knows how to make that conversion. Any thoughts on how to proceed are welcomed.

Posting this from the BLU thread to get "outside" attention. It's mostly for the hardcore math experts that know wtf a PDIF is and the means of calculating it.

[FailureMidgard]

I didn't buy shit, the guy was in my ls for a year before he quit and gave it to me and you still think I paid why? Name a situation PLD should sub war or red mage besides JoL or wyrms w/ aegis, please.

Pld should sub war while solo farming lvl ~50 mobs without a Joyeuse so they can Double Attack?

Is there a reason pld should sub war at all? I've never understood it...

[cdgreg]

Any clue what the gold sub on Tiger Ledelsens is?

[belzedar]

Name a situation PLD should sub war or red mage besides JoL or wyrms w/ aegis, please.

WAR:
- Exp parties pre-75
- I think /war is actually the best pure DD sub if you don't have joy or justice (not sure about this one).

RDM:
- Campaign (there are some legitimately good rewards, and PLD/RDM is legitimately broken in this setting)
- ACP final fight
- Endgame solos that don't hit too hard (LoO, KA, probably some others)
- Any other time phalanx/stoneskin can mitigate a decent amount of damage, or that en-spells can add a decent amount of damage

I know it would be pretty annoying to test, but does 321 shield skill actually cap block rate with a kite shield on "everything"? There are situations when it would be more important to get ichi off than to mitigate damage during a shield block.

[FailureMidgard]

WAR:
- Exp parties pre-70

fixed? Don't slack and get a Joyeuse...if you're leveling paladin, you -NEED- one eventually for your endgame gearsets, why not get it as soon as you can use it, rather than put it off.

/war is a retardedly useless and overused sub for pld...

It's about as useful as a rdm/war for tanking?

[belzedar]

Don't slack and get a Joyeuse...if you're leveling paladin, you -NEED- one eventually for your endgame gearsets, why not get it as soon as you can use it, rather than put it off.

Exp parties give you something to do between Chary windows. Chances are you're going to be level-synced to something lower anyway.

I haven't used /WAR in ages, but I do think it's got a niche in the 1-2 minute/mob exp party setup.

[FailureMidgard]

Exp parties give you something to do between Chary windows. Chances are you're going to be level-synced to something lower anyway.

I haven't used /WAR in ages, but I do think it's got a niche in the 1-2 minute/mob exp party setup.

FINE. I forgot about the 8hr window on Charyb...I still think there is no valid reason to wait until 75 for a paladin to get one though...I'm all for not wasting time camping r/e crap that you'll only use for a few levels...but when we're talking about and endgame item/etc that you can equip at 70, the only excuse to not go out of your way to get it at 70 (yea, you may lvl sync some, you also may not level sync some, or may campaign) is it's your first job and you don't have any 75 friends on the server/enough gil to buy one...other than that, yea.

Anddddd, I dunno about /war on pld...pld is a bad job in an exp party. It almost feels futile to even care what I subbed when I leveled it. The fact the party wanted a waste of space in the party meant it was already bad before I got there. (I only leveled it to 66 for cap). The only good thing about it is near instant invites to mediocre parties.

[Nevex]

Add DI to the list of things where /RDM is viable over /NIN.

Haven't tanked Ixion since it was patched but I've tried both subs on it and I prefer RDM much more.
No I don't have an Aegis, Burtgang or hardcore shield skill(only have 300), and yes, I still range its lightning moves whenever I can (when you have 4 people capable of casting Erase in your party, bind and gravity aren't that scary).

Also you should never sub NIN in Dynamis period, WAR, RDM, DRK and even BLM are better subs.

[Humblejoe]

What is the best gear setup for helix spell damage for SCH? This is assuming you are using elemental seal.

[Pendulum]

I know it would be pretty annoying to test, but does 321 shield skill actually cap block rate with a kite shield on "everything"?

I've no personal experience on this but I've seen plenty of people here, neo included, say it's impossible to cap your shield block rate on any sort of mob that you would really want capped block rate on.

[FailureMidgard]

What is the best gear setup for helix spell damage for SCH? This is assuming you are using elemental seal.

HQ Staff, Bugard+1, Phantom
Maat's, Prudence, Moldavite, Novio
Mahatma, Yigit, Snow, Snow (RAJAS ONLY!)
Gleeman's, Relic/Penitent, Mahatma, ?Yigit or Goliard?

I'm unsure on the feet...I'd guess Yigit, but I'm not sure on the exact calculations.

[Killkenny]

Add DI to the list of things where /RDM is viable over /NIN.

Haven't tanked Ixion since it was patched but I've tried both subs on it and I prefer RDM much more.
No I don't have an Aegis, Burtgang or hardcore shield skill(only have 300), and yes, I still range its lightning moves whenever I can (when you have 4 people capable of casting Erase in your party, bind and gravity aren't that scary).

Also you should never sub NIN in Dynamis period, WAR, RDM, DRK and even BLM are better subs.

Before patch /rdm was never a better sub for ixion, it is inferior to /nin in every way except perhaps the fun from using an unusual sub. I really don't understand why ixion was singled out amongst all other HNM fights just because most plds when they sub /nin are too stupid/lazy not to have a non-melee idle set (essentially your shield set but I see plenty of plds tank ixion idling in B mask and Turban). There is no benefit other than a very small amount of MDB gained on his spear/wrath (which already do minimal damage with a 1/2 decent MDT kit), and this will be more than negated by the damage you will take from his melee attacks and tp moves. You will be constantly bound and grav'd, having 4 mages spam erase on you just seems stupid and it still won't be as reliable as /nin is for being in a position to avoid tp moves.

Since the patch there is even less reason to sub anything but /nin because stance now takes 1-3 shadows but there was never any reason to sub rdm in the first place, just people being stubborn and refusing to accept /nin is superior in every straight tank situation.