What's Better?

[Raen Ryong]

Yeah, I can see why it's 25% now. Talrandir's explanation made it obvious that I was focussing on the numbers too much and not really thinking about them in this case.

Yeah, I can see situations where that 5hit can be really mighty, I just don't think it's the new "ultimate build" as it seemed ... though of course in the situations it does work well in, it is this rambling sentence is basically saying I don't think it obsoletes 6hit Perdu.

[Thunder]

How are you guys getting this much store tp, exactly?

with +36, you said a drk would get 19.5 per hit which would leave 2.5tp that needs to be made up in extra guillo hits which I would just be two(I think? extra hits are 1tp and modified still by store tp, correct?).

But if you want to use ACP body for this you're looking at:
15 /sam, 5 rajas, 1 brutal, 4 grip, 4 body for just +29..

Must be talking about ecphoria or chiv chain, though to get that +30 for carbonara to get you to 36.

Although, wouldn't using cuirass for 3 more stp making the aforementioned build +32 stp then adding on tathlum, ecph, and chiv chain while using pizza be superior to a build with acp body, bomblet, and (either justice, toreador, or pcc)?

Pizza's acc+, 3dex, 3str, vs 6atk, 16acc + either 5str, 6acc, 7atk, or 7acc, or 10acc.

[Maguile]

regarding the new head armour for the mini-expansion:

WS acc +25 for my monks asuran fists?
WS acc +25 for my drks guillotine?
TP gear (haste + 3, acc+ 10, att+5) for my drk and pld?

The WS pieces obviously beat O. Hat, which is what I use now, but does the TP piece beat w. turban?

[Cream Soda]

regarding the new head armour for the mini-expansion:

WS acc +25 for my monks asuran fists?
WS acc +25 for my drks guillotine?
TP gear (haste + 3, acc+ 10, att+5) for my drk and pld?

The WS pieces obviously beat O. Hat, which is what I use now, but does the TP piece beat w. turban?

For mnk, that'd beat turban as a tp piece anytime you're under 90% hitrate rly.

25% haste gear, haste, double march is 60% haste
58% haste w/ 10 acc 3 haste hat

2/100-60 = 5% increase in DoT and WS frequency.

Any situation where you'd get full benefit of the acc, 5% hitrate
5/90 = 5.56% increase to DoT and WS frequency.

If your hitrate is 90.5 or lower, new head will win.
4.5/90.5 = 4.97% increase. The 5 attack will easily make up for the rest.

91% hitrate or higher ? go turban

[Amelya]

Maybe a stupid question, but b. haidate or usu legs for blade:jin? Mithra if it matters.

[Raen Ryong]

Although, wouldn't using cuirass for 3 more stp making the aforementioned build +32 stp then adding on tathlum, ecph, and chiv chain while using pizza be superior to a build with acp body, bomblet, and (either justice, toreador, or pcc)?

I think you'd have to WS in some if not all of that extra store TP which will probably end up hurting ;x

[Cream Soda]

I'm no nin, but I'd say kitty pants. 5 more acc and crit ws, so 10 dex I'd have to say is important.

[Alyric]

Moogle expansion reward!

Selenian Cap for my BLM with INT+4/Magic Acc+2 and Magic acc +3/hMP+3. (Woo, placeholder for my morrigan's coronal.)

Vs.

A hat for my newly 75 THF, though I'm not sure there are any really above 'meh' combinations.

Vs.

Not buying the expansion, saving 10 bucks and some time.

&get?

[pugnax179]

1 Fealty and 4 Guardian or 5 Fealty?

[Nerull]

Thread title should be: What's Betterer?

[firefeng]

Going from last topic, regarding DRK 5hit vs. 6hit. Raen said it's a 20% increase in WS frequency. Nope. It's 25%. Short summary on DRK 5hit is that the safe combo is rose strap and ACP body w/ 10 ACC and 4 STP, and you can wear PCC this way (on top of rajas/ecphoria/brutal/carbonara). If you're accurate enough you can start tweaking it even more with aurum and chiv chains and pole grips.

It's not nearly a 25% increase in WS frequency. Best case scenario (capped ACC with Aurum body) it's only about a ~17% increase in WS frequency. At 90% acc, you only get 10-11% increased WS frequency. That's accounting for scythe delay differences, 2% DA, and (if ACC isn't capped) more ACC on non-sTP body pieces.

Also, 36 sTP is cutting it kind of close. To maintain the 5-hit even assuming a missed hit on Guillotine, you'd have to WS in 20 Store TP (14 from gear, assuming you're eating carbonara). That means you'd have to WS in some suboptimal shit just to cover your bases. On the other hand, switching ACP body out for Aurum and Ecphoria out for Sniper +1/Toreador's is only a net loss of 3-4 ACC, but gives you 38 total sTP, 3 STR, 3 DEX, ~16 ATT, and more leeway in gearing for Guillotine.

Again, though, it's really not something you'd wanna do unless you can get over a 90% hitrate, bare minimum. Then there's the food discrepancy (unless you're mega-rich and can spam arrabbiato, the best food ever, in which case there is no food discrepancy). Is it worth the gear changes and the switch from red curry or HH pie to carbonara? Debatable, but probably yes unless you can cap your ATT to get the most of curry's boost.

[Seedz]

1 Fealty and 4 Guardian or 5 Fealty?

Cap Guardian. If anything, drop a Chivalry merit and unlock Fealty. Fuck Iron Will.

[Shinryuu]

It's not nearly a 25% increase in WS frequency. Best case scenario (capped ACC with Aurum body) it's only about a ~17% increase in WS frequency. At 90% acc, you only get 10-11% increased WS frequency. That's accounting for scythe delay differences, 2% DA, and (if ACC isn't capped) more ACC on non-sTP body pieces.

Also, 36 sTP is cutting it kind of close. To maintain the 5-hit even assuming a missed hit on Guillotine, you'd have to WS in 20 Store TP (14 from gear, assuming you're eating carbonara). That means you'd have to WS in some suboptimal shit just to cover your bases. On the other hand, switching ACP body out for Aurum and Ecphoria out for Sniper +1/Toreador's is only a net loss of 3-4 ACC, but gives you 38 total sTP, 3 STR, 3 DEX, ~16 ATT, and more leeway in gearing for Guillotine.

Again, though, it's really not something you'd wanna do unless you can get over a 90% hitrate, bare minimum. Then there's the food discrepancy (unless you're mega-rich and can spam arrabbiato, the best food ever, in which case there is no food discrepancy). Is it worth the gear changes and the switch from red curry or HH pie to carbonara? Debatable, but probably yes unless you can cap your ATT to get the most of curry's boost.

<_<

When you compare two pieces, you look at the damage increase both give going from a hypothetical blank piece; in this case a scythe without stats, with a 6-hit, 528 delay, and 93 damage. Your gear is the suboptimal hitrate gear that goes w/ 5-hit. You then calculate the +%damage for all factors and multiply 'em.

Orich 5-hit
- Going from 6-hit to 5-hit is 25% weapon frequency, times WS/TP ratio w/ D93 scythe
- Going from D93 to D97 is an x% increase in TP damage and a way-less-than-x% increase in WS damage (depending on fSTR and WS STR/MND). Average 'em out using WS/TP ratio

Perdu 6-hit
- 5.4% more damage from delay
- 10 attack +damage% depends on mob defense and level etc.
- You gain hitrate (depends on old hitrate and what kind of 5hit build you use). Say you go from 89% to 95%, that's a 6.7% increase in damage due to more TP swings and increased WS frequency
- Possible gaining 2% double attack depending on which 5-hit you use
- Possible gain from using a food better than arrabbiata/carbonara

[Starr]

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b.../rindomaru.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b..._1987/5hit.jpg

sup 5-hit SAM

better than Hagun?

[mdkuser]

need to get at least 20 tp per hit for a 5-hit. I count 18.9tp/hit.

edit: nvm, but you lose 3% haste, but this looks very interresting...might beat hagun.

[Starr]

With 5/5 Store TP merits and traits?

[Shinryuu]

Rose strap?

Not better than Hagun I think. From a D75 GKT w/ 6hit:

Hagun:
+20% WS damage
+3% haste

Rindomaru:
+25% WS frequency
+1 ACC
+2 DMG

Both WS frequency and WS damage are times WS/TP ratio, which at most will be like 70/30 or so, making the difference between total damage +% from WS freq vs. WS damage 3%ish. The haste at high haste values will result in 6% or more total damage, whereas the 1 ACC and 2 DMG are both not more than 1% damage each.

[Starr]

the gear I posted is 5 hit, is it better than hagun? -_-

[Shinryuu]

My "Rose Strap" was when I thought Rose Strap + Dusk Gloves would work (but it doesn't so I edited parts out). Either way with that 5-hit Rose Strap would free up Ecphoria I guess. Meh. I'd see that 5hit work in places you can /DRG and have an Imperial ring. Salvage? Can get 26% gear haste with ace's.

[mdkuser]

yeah I agree with shinnryuu. The fact that you have to give up some haste means hagun beats it if you have marches ( 50%+ haste), probably also if you don't. Haste +3% will be more dmg than 2 base dmg, 1 acc, and +5% WS dmg. Not to mention you have to give up a decent amount of STR during WS: the best combo for WS that I can come up with uses usu body, af+1 leg, hachi feet, which is 3 STR loss, 10 att loss.