Is Rindomaru worth it?

[Vodou]

I -have- full Usukane. I don't just say it without comparing the 2. I also prefer a W.Turban over an Ace's in a vast majority of the situations. If you're under accuracy cap (and aren't going to eat Curry...) then use a Pizza, and drop the Ace's.

In any case, 1% haste is better than your 4 accuracy difference (and if you truly feel it isn't, then the new head should replace Ace's for everyone anyway). Defensively, sure, Usukane wins, and I'll admit I do use it at times when I feel my evasion may make a difference. That really isn't that often, however.

I've read over the last 2 years a few fair evaluations of the mix match versus usu sets. This is as fair a one as I've seen, but still I find all of them wanting for completeness. If you want to say its because I have full usu, I would only say I have the option to wear either and still use full usu due to the following.

These sets are subject to exactly what you have said Failure, in that they can be considered situational. However I have noted that so many of the comparisons seems to give short shrift to the evasion, the stp and to exactly what are the conditions that one would choose either set.

Evasion: From some analyses, not specifically this one, since you have acknowledged the defensive abilites of the full set, the value of evasion is being ignored. My evasion rates are significant in the areas my sam melees. Of course, I am not referring to Kirin or Tiamat, but then again, I am not talking about salvage either. What evasion does is not simply reduce damage taken, but ultimately from time to time, eliminate a death which would cost an empirical amount of lost damage while weakend. I would not presume to know how much that is, but it's not zero. Ignoring this from an overall damage perspective assists the mixed set only. I can imagine (not totally without facts) that I avoid at least 1 death every 3-4 hours when I am on my sam because when I pull hate I get at least 1 extra miss at a fortunate time.

Stp: Have we agreed that the 'extra' stp on the full usu set has no value? Is there no value in being able to have more gear options regarding 6-hit builds using one set over the other? I would only suggest, making that assumption and not quantifying that assists the mixed set only.

I don't really disagree that one of these sets is better under certain circumstances. Perhaps one set is better under every circumstance. I don't think we've done a great job of quantifying those circumstances to a degree where we can say on paper 1% haste or 4 acc or 60 evasion or 6 stp clearly creates a winner.

It's not that I think that all things considered they are too close to call; I just have not seen enough math to say exactly what it is because things (I mentioned above) are not being quantified in the damage calculation.

In my own, less that skilled mathiness, I've drawn a conclusion that making a change is not warranted. But as always, I am eager to be wrong and to improve.

[kwontess]

I don't get how everyone is this bad at math. Excluding meditate and assuming a 5 hit build for Rindomaru, it will average 25% MORE weaponskills. Its very simple to do the math. Lets look at 100 swings (starting after 1 weaponskill).

Hagun takes 5 hits between weaponskills. With 100 swings this is 20 weaponskills (100/5 = 20).

Rindomaru takes 4 hits between weaponskills. With 100 swings this is 25 weaponskills (100/4 = 25).

This by definition is a 25% increase in weaponskills: (25-20)/20x100 = 25.

If you still aren't convinced we can do 500 swings.

Hagun with 500 swings will weaponskill 100 times (500/5 = 100).

Rindomaru with 500 swings will weaponskill 125 times (500/4 = 125).

For every 100 weaponskills with Hagun you will get 125 with Rindomaru. If that isn't 25% more weaponskills I really don't know what is.

These calculations are very simple. Its just (Hagun number of swings after ws)/(Rindomaru number of swings after ws). This is 5/4 = 1.25 or 25% more weaponskills.

This does neglect other gear differences and meditate. Ignoring meditate, a 5 hit build is roughly 25% more weaponskills than a 6 hit. There is no way to argue otherwise.

[Fridell]

While I don't necessarily disagree with you totally, I must say the evasion aspect on SAM is pretty irrelevant. Sure if it saves you from 1 or 2 hits at times one can celebrate if they are a firm believer of the Usukane set on SAM. For myself I rather have a mixed set, the defensive part doesn't convince me enough, espeically on SAM where I can Third Eye and swap on my Physical damage down set.

[Gerkin]

While I don't necessarily disagree with you totally, I must say the evasion aspect on SAM is pretty irrelevant. Sure if it saves you from 1 or 2 hits at times one can celebrate if they are a firm believer of the Usukane set on SAM. For myself I rather have a mixed set, the defensive part doesn't convince me enough, espeically on SAM where I can Third Eye and swap on my Physical damage down set.

If you are swapping into physical damage down sets, you are gimping yourself offensively. I dont get the logic behind this being ok, but discounting the defensive gains of using usukane.

[Fridell]

I should have added that you know what you get with the physical damage down set, with counting on evasion you don't, should have been more clear. If you manage to evade it's obviously better then taking a hit or 2 in oshit gear while getting a swing or 2 in. But in reality I think that unless it's on really weak stuff you get more damage and safty out from mixed set.

[Vodou]

I should have added that you know what you get with the physical damage down set, with counting on evasion you don't, should have been more clear.

The thing is, if you look at data you will see that some jobs / gear consistently get hit at a much higher % than others. People say it doesn't matter....hell I used to think the same thing myself, but when I look at the numbers I see something different.

I don't think it's well documented or well accepted as part of the whole picture is all I'm saying. Yes, its simpler to assume that no one dies and that damage is damage. But there is a fact that people with higher evasion take less damage and an undocumented but reasonable assumption that they die less.

This isn't a small thing: +60 evasion is a crap load unless you assume that the mobs hit everyone at 95%. Ok, it well "might" be true for Kirin, Byakko, and so forth, but not true for a ton of other mobs. Then again, it might not be true for them either. Healthy skepticism doesn't hurt.

[Gerkin]

All this shit aside, where the hell is this Tp Bonus Rindomaru picture!

[Darlantan]

The guy that posted that is in hell, the pic, I dont know.

[Deimos]

All this shit aside, where the hell is this Tp Bonus Rindomaru picture!

It doesn't exist, because that isn't even a possible augment.

The full list of possible augments was posted here: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/78710...7-20-09-a.html

[eva00r]

whatever

Now best possible augmented Rindomaru is +17 STP, +4 Accuracy and +5% bonus damage to WS. It will beat Hagun on anything that matters.

But do you think it is easier to get this than Hagun ?
NO.

[BRP]

Can you really get 17 STP?

[Chantal]

Uhh, to all the people who are arguing mixed set vs full usu... couldn't you just, swap on full usu when you take hate if you like its evasion/counter so much?

Maybe it's from years as playing as a tank/mage but, in my eyes, all that defense doesn't do much if you aren't getting hit. Might as well maximize your damage in those situations. Or am I missing something? xD

[Niiro]

Unless you have dusk+1 and hachiryu body the difference between usu and a mixed set is abysmally small and not worth arguing.

Even if you did the difference would still be fairly minor.

Also I don't get the discussion of the 'defensive' aspects of usu compared to mixed. If you're taking damage and wearing anything but arhat's you're doin it wrong.

[Deemos]

If no +1, Dusk Gloves and it's freackin gravity are already enough boring to make full usu best, over a mixed set.

[Crab_Cake]

May sound weird but I hope its never as good as Hagun, I worked my fucking ass for one and if SE is gonna toss lowlifes who dont work for their SAM a cheap substitute that's as good as Hagun, this game is fucking done.

Unfortunately, they already did that for THFs and Thief's Knife. It used to be as rare as Kraken Clubs.

It used to be like "wow that person has a Thief's Knife", now it's "Wow that person doesn't have a thief's knife!".

Same with Haubergeons and Scorp Harnesses, I had to use up all my points to lot on 100 currencies and two hundred sandy currencies to buy a Haubergeon back during inflation.

Now everyone and their chocobo has a haubergeon, and it takes 5 haubergeons to equal the price of 100 sandy currencies.

And they already kind of screwed SMNs who worked for a Bahamut's Staff with the augment updates.

I'm 1/1 on Fay Crozier with avatar perp. cost -3 augment.

Also remember back in the day when people had to deal with 5k exp an hour camps, not to mention before they nerfed the exp needed to level up? Yeah, poor the 1-2 people that got their Maat's Cap doing slow exping, cause now it's so much easier to level up to 75.

(tl;dr)The point of this post is, stuff always gets easier as the game ages, due to updates and due to players learning how to play the game and learn how to copy strategies that worked successfully. It's been happening in the beginning of the game, so expect the worst .

[Shade]

I thought that being able to buy your best weapon through the AH was -already- easy....
*stares longingly at Valkyrie's Fork*

[Deemos]

Unfortunately, they already did that for THFs and Thief's Knife. It used to be as rare as Kraken Clubs.

It used to be like "wow that person has a Thief's Knife", now it's "Wow that person doesn't have a thief's knife!".

Same with Haubergeons and Scorp Harnesses, I had to use up all my points to lot on 100 currencies and two hundred sandy currencies to buy a Haubergeon back during inflation.

Now everyone and their chocobo has a haubergeon, and it takes 5 haubergeons to equal the price of 100 sandy currencies.

And they already kind of screwed SMNs who worked for a Bahamut's Staff with the augment updates.

I'm 1/1 on Fay Crozier with avatar perp. cost -3 augment.

Also remember back in the day when people had to deal with 5k exp an hour camps, not to mention before they nerfed the exp needed to level up? Yeah, poor the 1-2 people that got their Maat's Cap doing slow exping, cause now it's so much easier to level up to 75.

(tl;dr)The point of this post is, stuff always gets easier as the game ages, due to updates and due to players learning how to play the game and learn how to copy strategies that worked successfully. It's been happening in the beginning of the game, so expect the worst .

Whole augment is intended to put that "casual style" that FFXI lacked maybe. When we QQs that is way to hard to obtain determinate thing, there will always be the one that goes mad because he worked hard on that thing, and the one just happy with these new Augments. Although your post is right as the game is getting alot easier, could not agree more with that

[Yugl]

I thought that being able to buy your best weapon through the AH was -already- easy....
*stares longingly at Valkyrie's Fork*

This entirely. I've been doing Einherjar for well over a year and still don't have my Vork (My number one item too).

[Niiro]

My opinion about valk fork is that it's simply for cock-waving, functionally thalassocrat is just as good if not better.

The store TP is useless (DRG gets 6 hit without it) and the 3% DA is exactly what it is: 3%.

Have you ever noticed your pole grip? Me neither.

I know it looks cool and has an awesome name, get over it, it's a sidegrade.

It's like BLUs that whine over hofud. Less damage and more delay than perdu and koggle, no STR, no DEX, en-aspir and en-drain proc rate is low and aspir requires the mob to have MP.

Why do people want this sword again? Exactly, cause it looks cool.

Spoiler: show

Disclaimer: not saying the DA is useless, just pointing out that it's fairly minor when compared to the EVA down from thala

Lets do a bit of side-by-side, shall we?

SAM: Hagun
-best weapon, not free, expensive

WAR: Perdu Voulge
-best weapon, free, easy to get

RNG: Obow
-best xbow, free, might take a few kills but pretty easy to get

RNG: E.bow
-best bow, not free, expensive

DRG: Thalassocrat
-arguably best weapon, not free, cheap

DRK: Tredecim Scythe
-one of the best weapons, not free, cheap as shit

DRK: Perdu Sickle
-one of the best weapons, free, easy to get

MNK: Destroyers
-best offensive weapon, free, easy to get

MNK: Hades sainti
-best tanking weapon, not free, fairly cheap

THF: X's knife
-best overall dagger, free, difficult to get (both to find the people with the right jobs to do the BC reliably combined with horrid drop rate)

THF: Blau dolch
-2nd best overall dagger, not free, expensive

THF: Sirocco
-Really cool dagger, kind of annoying to get



Recap: Why do people bitch about SAMs best weapon being from AH? All you need to get perdu weapons is to merit and do assaults. ToAU has been out for years, even if you -only- did repeats you'd have FL by now. As far as the other jobs with AHable weapons, SAM is the 2nd most expensive after RNG (tho imo Obow is the better choice overall).

The only job with any right to bitch is THF.

Hating on SAM, for any possible reason (even if it's a bad one) has just become the cool thing to do it seems.

[/rant]

[Yugl]

Vork allows for different gear sets by utilizing the sTP without having to resort to lolrosestrap. It allows Ares body users to maintain a 6-Hit Build (This may need Rose Strap OR white tathlum), and allows Aurum Body users to access Sword Strap (BETTER than Pole Grip mathematically). The DA is a bonus, and the DMG is a nice upgrade. The additional effect from Thalassocrat can be nice, but in most cases, you expect your fellow DDs to gear up properly and fix accuracy issues on their own. Chances are if you're fighting a mob terribly evasive, you're less likely to land hits yourself (Thus less likely to activate the additional effect). In short, Vork changes gear choices for more damage, but is absolute hell to obtain in comparison to Hagun.

Your evaluation is *very* biased. For Perdu users, you assume they're at the rank or can achieve the rank at max pace. Have you ever considered someone farming for Hagun (3mil here) or doing the ENM in that time? If PC user, I'm very sure that you can duo the ENM. If not, a trio will suffice. Unlike assaults, there's absolutely no guarantee at obtaining the Hagun in the same amount of time it takes to XP/rank up, but XP/rank up takes so much that that it's not unreasonable for someone to farm the gil in that time.

In short, what is "easy" is subjective. AH and IS items tend to be the easiest since you can farm gil and rank up to obtain the item. Aside from the process of farming and doing the assault, there is no real luck factor involved. Unlike items such as X knife and Vork, there is a guarantee that you eventually will receive your item. At the end of farming what ever gil is needed, you know that Hagun/Ebow is yours. At the end of ranking up and accumulating IS, you know that Perdu weapon is yours. However, X knife and Vork have an indefinite period of obtainment.