Is Rindomaru worth it?

[mdkuser]

MNK: Destroyers
-best offensive weapon, free, easy to get

MNK: Hades sainti
-best tanking weapon, not free, fairly cheap

THF: X's knife
-best overall dagger, free, difficult to get (both to find the people with the right jobs to do the BC reliably combined with horrid drop rate)

THF: Blau dolch
-2nd best overall dagger, not free, expensive

THF: Sirocco
-Really cool dagger, kind of annoying to get

I would add that hagun is easy to get, just have to spam an ENM with 1-2 friends until it drops, just like blau dolch. ALso NQ hades sainti beats destroyers whenever you need accuracy, even if you just need 1 acc.

[Arthars]

maybe its just me but valk fork is as good as it can be

people who doesnt have it will prolly stick to their thalassocrat

everything in valks fork is useful. DA, store TP, high delay, high D. im not saying its better than thalassocrat, altho i believe it is.

whereas everything in hofud sucks. no acc, no att, no nothing, and the proc is as broken as it is

so dont bring hofud into discussion in comparison to fork

hofud sucks period and valk fork doesnt

[Cream Soda]

ALso NQ hades sainti beats destroyers whenever you need accuracy, even if you just need 1 acc.

First of all, no, .5% hitrate does not beat 6% crits, sorry.

2nd of all, you have the crits which is a fulltime bonus where as w/ the acc on hades, you only benefit from it 60% of the time. If you're not capping w/ focus, eat another food.

For example 80% hitrate, 95 w/ focus
3.5/80 = 4.375% increase in dmg.
4.375 x .6 = 2.625% increase in dmg.

Now I'm not the best when dealing w/ crits, but I think it'd be safe to say that that +6 of it will increase your damage more than 2.625%

[Knyghtmayre]

How is there no luck factor involved in obtaining a Hagun? Sure most people just farm for it, but it has to drop for someone to sell it.

http://i28.tinypic.com/28chv0n.png

Edit: How the hell did this thread even derail this far <_>

[pchan]

First of all, no, .5% hitrate does not beat 6% crits, sorry.

2nd of all, you have the crits which is a fulltime bonus where as w/ the acc on hades, you only benefit from it 60% of the time. If you're not capping w/ focus, eat another food.

For example 80% hitrate, 95 w/ focus
3.5/80 = 4.375% increase in dmg.
4.375 x .6 = 2.625% increase in dmg.

Now I'm not the best when dealing w/ crits, but I think it'd be safe to say that that +6 of it will increase your damage more than 2.625%

Your argument about them being worthless 60% of the time doesn't work for mamoolja camps, where you keep focus for infiltrators and lurkers. That's why they are superior there.

6% crit is approximately 5% increase in damage (10%>16% crit is 1.16/1.10=, for you melee hits only, so overall 3%. Because whatever you do pretty much on monk, unless you punch wild rabbits, crit do ~2x normal hits, and melee does 60% of you total damage, at best.

On a side note, the 7 enmity on them is underrated. I had several parse with mdk on salvage bosses where even though he ate pizza and used destroyers, thus destroyers are superior, I would be the only one countering throughout the fight (3K counter dmg vs 200 lol) although I ate meat and use hades.

[Thunder]

Edit: How the hell did this thread even derail this far <_>

I was really waiting for Failure's response

[Burnsy]

Finding out pchan and mdk do salvage together made this thread worth reading. Thanks. (It solves why both are so much of a PIA on these boards)

Now where is the math equations and computations telling us how many posts it'll take to get both of then banned?

[Niiro]

Vork allows for different gear sets by utilizing the sTP without having to resort to lolrosestrap.

/sam rajas brutal and askar body make 6 hit for DRG, there's no sacrifice needed for not having the STP from valk, tho you're right in that you would need the stp from fork + white tath if you wanted to use ares.

Your evaluation is *very* biased. For Perdu users, you assume they're at the rank or can achieve the rank at max pace.

ToAU has been out for years, even if you -only- did repeats you'd have FL by now.

And as for the IS, what else is there to spend it on? I hardly merit at all and over time I got enough IS for 2 perdu weapons for jobs I never use as well as coins for 8 salvage pieces and selling a bunch of gold pieces here and there when I had a lot of extra. If you don't have enough IS for a perdu weapon then you probably don't have enough merits either, go merit.

In short, what is "easy" is subjective. AH and IS items tend to be the easiest since you can farm gil and rank up to obtain the item. Aside from the process of farming and doing the assault, there is no real luck factor involved. Unlike items such as X knife and Vork, there is a guarantee that you eventually will receive your item. At the end of farming what ever gil is needed, you know that Hagun/Ebow is yours. At the end of ranking up and accumulating IS, you know that Perdu weapon is yours. However, X knife and Vork have an indefinite period of obtainment.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or you didn't read what I wrote. I never said V.fork was easy to obtain, merely pointing out how overrated it is, and as for Xs knife it was the only weapon I considered to be truly hard to obtain.

Buyable items have no difficult requirements, save money -> buy item. Perdu weapons are the same way only the gil is swapped with IS. Like I said before, ToAU has been out a loooooong fucking time, if you don't have rank for them by now it's your own fault.

[seiji]

I would add that hagun is easy to get, just have to spam an ENM with 1-2 friends until it drops, just like blau dolch. .

did I miss any good strat/tips to low man hagun ENM without bigcheating ?

[Thunder]

did I miss any good strat/tips to low man hagun ENM without bigcheating ?

Before I played on computer with APradar I was able to duo it regularly with rdm/whm and sam/war. We knew where the pops were and you can probably find one somewhere.. it was that awful MSpaint job, sure somebody will link you. Just have the mage pop with earth staff/SS and sleep any adds you get.

[pchan]

Finding out pchan and mdk do salvage together made this thread worth reading. Thanks. (It solves why both are so much of a PIA on these boards)

Now where is the math equations and computations telling us how many posts it'll take to get both of then banned?

I swear, some mnk out there with turban, destroyers, byakko and black belt think they have good gear.

[Seedz]

I swear, some mnk out there with turban, destroyers, byakko and black belt think they have good gear.

What the fuck

[Burnsy]

I swear, some mnk out there with turban, destroyers, byakko and black belt think they have good gear.

And some think they know how to do math and think full usukane pup is any less lolable.

[Cream Soda]

Your argument about them being worthless 60% of the time doesn't work for mamoolja camps, where you keep focus for infiltrators and lurkers. That's why they are superior there.

6% crit is approximately 5% increase in damage (10%>16% crit is 1.16/1.10=, for you melee hits only, so overall 3%. Because whatever you do pretty much on monk, unless you punch wild rabbits, crit do ~2x normal hits, and melee does 60% of you total damage, at best.

On a side note, the 7 enmity on them is underrated. I had several parse with mdk on salvage bosses where even though he ate pizza and used destroyers, thus destroyers are superior, I would be the only one countering throughout the fight (3K counter dmg vs 200 lol) although I ate meat and use hades.

If lurkers and infiltrators were the only mobs at MSJP, you'd have a point, but they aren't so you. With pizza+1, i can cap my acc out on everything but lurkers w/ destroyers, w/ 83-85% hitrate on lurkers w/ pizza+1 and putting on my all my acc gear. Also, fighting one lurker every 5 mins does not warrant wearing 7 acc on every other mob till that point.

[Yugl]

How is there no luck factor involved in obtaining a Hagun? Sure most people just farm for it, but it has to drop for someone to sell it.

Hagun - Bahamut - FFXIAH.com

Six Haguns for sale on Diabolos. Got the gil?

If your idea of a "real luck factor" (The term I used) is someone putting up an item from an ENM that is spammed constantly, then I guess Forager's Mantle and Hedgehog Bomb take real luck to obtain (Pre-FOV). Having said that, are you blatantly trying to miss the point that Vork is more difficult to obtain than Hagun, or are you going to keep up the side talk?

/sam rajas brutal and askar body make 6 hit for DRG, there's no sacrifice needed for not having the STP from valk, tho you're right in that you would need the stp from fork + white tath if you wanted to use ares.

I wasn't talking about *just* obtaining a 6-Hit build when I mentioned that DRG has more gear options when using Vork. A few quick points I'll make on this:

Ares DRG can obtain 6-Hit build without Rose Strap
Aurum DRG can use Sword Strap for more damage than Pole Grip
If using Pole Grip with Aurum, you can utilize the excess TP and use a Jump set that does not meet the 6-Hit build requirements for more damage

These are just a few examples, but I think the point is clear.

And as for the IS, what else is there to spend it on? I hardly merit at all and over time I got enough IS for 2 perdu weapons for jobs I never use as well as coins for 8 salvage pieces and selling a bunch of gold pieces here and there when I had a lot of extra. If you don't have enough IS for a perdu weapon then you probably don't have enough merits either, go merit.

It's nice to know that you can afford Perdu weapons. I can too since I have near (At one point over) 100k IS and have had Captain since a few months after it was introduced. In fact, I even bought one for BLU. However, I will not allow that to delude me into thinking that *everyone* has the same opportunities as me. People do use IS for other stuff, and they do run out of IS (Surprisingly). People that spam ISNM and Gold coins for gil (This was VERY popular about a year or two ago) sometimes don't have the IS needed for weapons. It's surprising, but I'm not to dictate how people spend their IS. How the spend their IS is besides the point. The fact is that Perdu weapons are not readily available to a great proportion of the player base.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or you didn't read what I wrote. I never said V.fork was easy to obtain, merely pointing out how overrated it is, and as for Xs knife it was the only weapon I considered to be truly hard to obtain.

I was agreeing on the point that X's Knife is difficult to obtain, but at the same time criticizing your analysis since it not only did not include Vork for comparison, but also suggested that it's an overrated weapon. In short, it gave the illusion that DRG's best weapon to obtain is somehow easier than the other weapons.

Buyable items have no difficult requirements, save money -> buy item. Perdu weapons are the same way only the gil is swapped with IS. Like I said before, ToAU has been out a loooooong fucking time, if you don't have rank for them by now it's your own fault.

ENMs have been out forever, so I guess the people with Hagun are also at fault.

[Raylinn]

Before I played on computer with APradar I was able to duo it regularly with rdm/whm and sam/war. We knew where the pops were and you can probably find one somewhere.. it was that awful MSpaint job, sure somebody will link you. Just have the mage pop with earth staff/SS and sleep any adds you get.

I assume you're talking about my spectacular map.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...e/antlions.jpg

I made that when I was regularly trioing it before I had APRadar. Could have easily done it duo if I had a real DD job back then.
Now I solo it for big gilz. (Viridian Urushi)

[Malacite]

lol @ the guy QQ over how hard he worked for his Hagun...


Get off your god damned horse son, more variety with equipment is a good thing. SE was stupid to release relics so early into the game because they ended up putting a ceiling on weapon performance, meaning every new weapon that comes out has to be worse. This is not good game design, at least not within the first few years of an MMO.


Hagun is bullshit, pure and simple. Yes it's a damned good weapon, but like many other equipment in the game is horrendously over priced and good fucking luck finding anyone who will be willing to do the ENM with you and let you keep it for your SAM. GJ only making it drop from one ENM SE, GJ.

Also, fuck that mountain.

[Eleven19]

lol @ the guy QQ over how hard he worked for his Hagun...


Get off your god damned horse son, more variety with equipment is a good thing. SE was stupid to release relics so early into the game because they ended up putting a ceiling on weapon performance, meaning every new weapon that comes out has to be worse. This is not good game design, at least not within the first few years of an MMO.


Hagun is bullshit, pure and simple. Yes it's a damned good weapon, but like many other equipment in the game is horrendously over priced and good fucking luck finding anyone who will be willing to do the ENM with you and let you keep it for your SAM. GJ only making it drop from one ENM SE, GJ.

Also, fuck that mountain.

Pretty much this.

Bottom line I think, if you have a Hagun you still have the best GK you can get besides Amano and Futsuno Mitsubishi or whatever the hell its called, and that one only by a small margin better.

Rindomaru I think will end up parsing just under hagun, how much depending on stats.

I also think the only way to really shut this argument down is for somebody with the mega stats +Ungodly sTP and +5% WS Damage to parse the damn thing vs Hagun.

I wouldn't know what to fight or how many, lol. Kirschy please >>

[ronin sparthos]

Also, fuck that mountain.

Save the frothing rage for Uleguerand's sliding bullshit >.>

[trencher]

Dear Ringthree,

So I was skimming through this post and yet again found you making the same assine statement about SAM's having a Polearm build. Do everyone a favor and either get over the fact that you SHOULD have a polearm build for SAM or for the love of everything holy, STOP REPEATING THIS IDIOTIC STATEMENT.

If you are the kind of person that has a polearm build for your SAM ...

Let's forget about the utility of having a polearm build on SAM for the moment and just focus on the logistics. Those of you who are not useless idiots who have a simple understanding of the game are excused from reading what you already know...

To have a Polearm build on SAM, your "average" SAM needs hardly any additional items. Let's examine "typical" TP/WS sets for GK and Polearm shall we. Again I apologize to the masses but I am so sick of reading the same nonsense coming out of your mouth...

Let's use some nameless SAM's gear sets (looking at you Puggles)

TP - GK
main Hagun
sub Pole Grip
ear1 Bushinomimi
ear2 Brutal Earring
body Haubergeon +1
head Ace's Helm
neck Peacock Charm
hands Dusk Gloves
ring1 Rajas Ring
ring2 Sniper's Ring +1
back Cerberus Mantle
waist Swift Belt
legs Byakko's Haidate
feet Usukane Sune-Ate
ammo Black Tathlum

TP- POLEARM
main Tomoe
sub Pole Grip
ear1 Fowling Earring
ear2 Brutal Earring
body Haubergeon +1
head Ace's Helm
neck Love Torque
hands Dusk Gloves
ring1 Rajas Ring
ring2 Sniper's Ring +1
back Cerberus Mantle
waist Swift Belt
legs Byakko's Haidate
feet Usukane Sune-Ate
ammo Black Tathlum

WOW! What a difference. It just boggles my mind. Let’s continue, shall we.

WS - GK
main Hagun
sub Pole Grip
ear1 Bushinomimi
ear2 Brutal Earring
body Kirin’s Osode
head Gnadbhod's Helm
neck Snow Gorget
hands Alkyoneus's Brc.
ring1 Rajas Ring
ring2 Triumph Ring
back Smilod. Mantle +1
waist Warwolf Belt
legs Byakko's Haidate
feet Askar Gambieras
ammo Olibanum Sachet

WS- POLEARM
main Tomoe
sub Pole Grip
ear1 Fowling Earring
ear2 Brutal Earring
body Haubergeon +1
head Gnadbhod's Helm
neck Love Torque
hands Noritsune Kote
ring1 Rajas Ring
ring2 Triumph Ring
back Cerberus Mantle
waist Warwolf Belt
legs Byakko's Haidate
feet Usukane Sune-Ate
ammo Black Tathlum

Items in Bold are “additional” items you would need to carry. Oh man! Check out all that extra gear. Check out all that effort!

Now seriously, did your parents have any children that lived?

Let’s examine all this hard to get gear;

Tomoe – yes so hard to 3-4 man Armed gears for arguably the “best” polearm a SAM can use.
Love Torque – any endgame shell will just GIVE you this. Just ask….
Fowling Earring – most servers 100kish. Big whoop
Noritsune Kote - Pug only uses this cause he doesn’t have AF+1 hands. I would argue AF+1 is better but that’s just because I have them and he doesn’t. Either way he is already carrying these for high EVA mobs we can assume.

Which gets us to the point; at best a “good” SAM has to carry 2, count them, 2 extra items then they would normally;
A Tomoe and a Love torque.
Other than that there is almost nothing you wouldn’t already be carrying.

There is NO EXCUSE for not having a Polearm build on SAM. NONE.

We get it. You suck at playing SAM to its maximum potential. Just do us all a favor and shut up about it already.