Summoner Gear - The New Standard

[calinz]

So you get 3 augments on the weapon? If so would it be possible to get:

Blood Pact delay -5
Pet: Magic Attack +7 Magic Accuracy +7
Attack+7 Ranged Attack+7

Seems like those would be the maximum values for the listed augments. However getting it all on one weapon seems impossible or would require extreme amounts of luck.

Or maybe they just programmed it to not be possible to get all augments maxed out on one weapon.

This will be interesting to see. I highly doubt the perp can go above 3 so I see this augment setup to be the optimal. Can always use B.Staff/HQ staves for perp between pacts.

[Gergall]

-bp timer cap is now at -19, which is now is roughly +32% haste, which means 4 BPs during astral flow

Actually 5 right? Under ideal circumstances:

[0:00] ___ uses Astral Flow
[0:01] ___ uses Tidal Wave
[0:42] ___ uses Tidal Wave
[1:23] ___ uses Tidal Wave
[2:04] ___ uses Tidal Wave
[2:45] ___ uses Tidal Wave

15 seconds of leeway should cover any problems caused by lag, delay between issuing the command and the timer starting, etc.

[Kenji]

The only thing I'm really interested in, is if calculations run like I think they do:

Merit BP at 300% TP: 1300-1400-ish?
Nirvana: +20 MAB
2 diamond earrings: +4 MAB
Royal Redingote: +7 MAB
Astral Pot: Wiki says 22 MAB?

= 53 MAB.

So a Magical Merit BP goes from 1300 to 1989+?

While 300 TP might seem impossible, we've already started getting pet: Haste and pet: DA gear. Garuda can get 15% from Hastega. Given some more gear along this line, and avatars can start building TP fairly fast.

It's a setup I'm working on, and hoping to test the exact numbers when I get everything together. It's just a hypothesis at the moment.

[Kenji]

This is an awesome idea, but what LS will let you melee on an HNM or other mega boss?

If its for your own shits and giggles then wooot! go epeen numbers.

Jailors? Especially mobs that are kited, where a melee can't catch up most of the time, and an avatar has no problems following along while smacking it.

[Neosutra]

Why the fuck would you let your avatar TP?

Really?

Really..?

[Karbuncle]

k. so jailers.

I am not trying to knock your TP ideas down, but the mobs to TP on are going to few and far between.

talking about mega bosses and hnm's. I mean of course in campaign battles melee away.

I am with you though I would love to be able to let my avatar tp some.

Mobs like JoL Who should only be using Boost are easy to let your Avatars TP on, With full 5 Merits on the 75BP you want to use you only need roughly 140TP, Using a 70 BP and meleeing until Timer is back up should get you the TP you need. With the Right armor and at least 1 form of Refresh its Viable, But unpractical on -most- mobs, but not all of them =)

Also, COR MAB Pet Roll is Epic no doubt for Avatars o .o;

[Karbuncle]

ok sure.

but the time it takes you to TP that much I could have 2 pacts already done. Regardless I would like to see some Epeen numbers.

Thats What im telling you to do though.

70BP > Melee > 75BP will give you more overall DMG than 75BP > Release/Resummon > 75BP or even 70BP > Release/Resummon > 70BP.

The only problem is MP Conservation, but with any form of Refresh and Decent gear Most avatars idle at around 1~2MP/tic. However, with say Ballad instead of RDM Refresh, you could keep Sublimation up and have Avatars out almost indefinitely.

This is however, only on enemies where =TP isnt a Problem=, or better an unavoidable Problem... Like Mobs with Large Regain (Kirin), mobs who's TP moves don't matter (JoL), or Kited fights (JoT for example)...

That Being said in situations like the above 70BP > Melee > 75BP will give you the best numbers =O, or in cased like JoT, 75 > melee > 75. You don't need 300% For this either, With Full Merits on the 75BP you want you only need 140% TP and as i explained with 70BP > Melee > 75BP you'll have close to 100% TP at the point your Timer is back up.

This way your Still Getting a BP off every 45~60 Seconds (Depending on your BP- Gear) and your doing more overall Damage with little to no MP loss.

but again, its -Extremely situational- and should not be used on all events, and the best SMN will know when the Situation calls for it!

[Rionel]

The only thing I'm really interested in, is if calculations run like I think they do:

Merit BP at 300% TP: 1300-1400-ish?
Nirvana: +20 MAB
2 diamond earrings: +4 MAB
Royal Redingote: +7 MAB
Astral Pot: Wiki says 22 MAB?

= 53 MAB.

So a Magical Merit BP goes from 1300 to 1989+?

While 300 TP might seem impossible, we've already started getting pet: Haste and pet: DA gear. Garuda can get 15% from Hastega. Given some more gear along this line, and avatars can start building TP fairly fast.

It's a setup I'm working on, and hoping to test the exact numbers when I get everything together. It's just a hypothesis at the moment.

Oh, that not right.. because Avatars have an innate Magic Attack Bonus trait, so you have to add those up in a cumulative way, not in a multiplicative way.

BaseMAB = The Avatar's natural MAB. I believe this is 32, the same as a BLM!
OtherMAB = MAB acquired from other sources such as equipment, Drachen Roll etc.
TotalMAB = BaseMAB + OtherMAB

The way you did it:

BaseDMG x 1.(BaseMAB) x 1.(OtherMAB) = Final DMG << Multiplicative MAB, incorrect.

When is should be...

BaseDMG x [1 + (TotalMAB)/100)] = Final DMG << Additive MAB, correct

Obviously that formula is really incomplete, but hopefully I'm getting my point across.

Merit BloodPact Adjustment Tests - Killing Ifrit <= Credits to Enilanerda
The TP modifier apparently is 2.26DMG per TP (So a 5/5 merited BP adds about 361~DMG compared to a 1/5 merited BP!) However when you start to include magic attack bonus to the equation, things start to get wonky.

Erugh~ I'm not exactly sure of these formulas but... mathematicians I need youuu! ; ; I was writing out numbers and stuff, but there's just too much stuff I don't really know for the formula of avatar magic damage. Not my forte exactly.

The most MAB you could squeeze out of avatars would probably be...

Natural MAB: +32
Augmented Diamond Earrings x2: +4
Royal Redingote: +7
Magic Attack Merits: +10
Drachen's Roll XI with Job Bonus: +16
Nirvana: +20
Astral Pot: +22~

Total MAB = +111

Erugh~ I'll write more later or something! ;x

[frodnonnag]

i upgraded the lists, adding in missing slots. the amount of +mab you can get now is staggering, i didn't know it was that much. we're looking at what? breaking 1k wind blades on ouryu, 2k windblades on fafnir, and 2500+ on lesser NMs like znm and the like?

[Kenji]

k. so jailers.

I am not trying to knock your TP ideas down, but the mobs to TP on are going to few and far between.

talking about mega bosses and hnm's. I mean of course in campaign battles melee away.

I am with you though I would love to be able to let my avatar tp some.

It's something that will need experimentation, and something that others will need time to wrap their minds around. Not saying it will be good in all circumstances. Off hand, I could say it's practical in Dynamis/Limbus/Nyzul/ZNMs/sky gods.

Why the fuck would you let your avatar TP?

Really?

Really..?

Say it with me: "Paradigm Shift"

This isn't 2003. Things are changing, and just might be worthwhile in light of those changes, to do some experimentation. Ya know, actually see how it works in practice with an open mind, before automatically rejecting it.

[frodnonnag]

Why the fuck would you let your avatar TP?

Really?

Really..?

as is, without triggering conjurer's ring latent, garuda costs me 1 mp a tic to keep out in most zones. in group events, refresh is almost always a given. while i wouldn't leave garuda out on fights like fafnir, ouryu or tiamat, getting TP on lesser nm is actually very beneficial to our damage.

i did a nhun recently and went from doing 980 windblades to 1100-1400 windblades because i left garuda out, greatly increasing my damage, without counting the normal melee hits.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Why the fuck would you let your avatar TP?

Really?

Really..?

Between your paladins swinging, and every other DD you have doing their part(unless you exclusively use summoners that go in, BP without engaging, and release), whatever you're fighting is going to have 100 TP in under a minute anyway. TP-feeding always has been and always will be a massive exaggeration.

[frodnonnag]

on a different note, has anyone seen ANYONE with two ruby earrings from ACP7? with how fervently i've been farming it, i really think it is an extremely rare drop to even get one, or there's some behind the scenes restrictions...


also, if anyone wants to put up other situational gearsets, i'd like to discuss those.

gearsets that need discussion:

avatar oh-shit
perp/avatar idle
/sch sleep/debuff
conjurer's ring trigger

[Thorny]

Between your paladins swinging, and every other DD you have doing their part(unless you exclusively use summoners that go in, BP without engaging, and release), whatever you're fighting is going to have 100 TP in under a minute anyway. TP-feeding always has been and always will be a massive exaggeration.

While I agree it's generally exaggerated, getting your avatar 140 tp is going to give the monster ~1.6 tp moves.. you need to weigh the benefits of the additional damage versus the cost of the 1.6 tp moves. It's all a matter of discretion, just because something gets tp in under a minute doesn't mean adding more has no adverse effects.. but by the same token, who gives a fuck how much tp jailer of love or kirin or ixion have.

[DAKPluto]

BP Magical list doesn't have Redingote with +7 M.acc/+7 M.att

[SargentRemora]

For Blood Pacts you could always use Selenian with Crit Hit +3% if you're fine for accuracy or not using Garuda.

[Izzy]

I remember when I used to get to play SMN...

Man I miss 2005

[DAKPluto]

For Blood Pacts you could always use Selenian with Crit Hit +3% if you're fine for accuracy or not using Garuda.

Actually, I've been finding Selenian with the 3% and AF2 body to be better than the Hachigane for Garuda.

[Fen]

So you get 3 augments on the weapon? If so would it be possible to get:

etc

You definitely don't always get 3 augments on the weapon. My first attempt last night got me an amazing Lightning Damage +11 augment <.< And that was it.

Next was Perp -2, Attack/R.Attack +5, MAB +3

Denied it, I want to see some -BP, but we only did the 2 runs since it was so late.

[SargentRemora]

gearsets that need discussion:

avatar oh-shit
perp/avatar idle
/sch sleep/debuff
conjurer's ring trigger

atm, perpep set goes:
Fay Staff (perpep -3), afv2 head/karuha head (gonna use Selenian with haste/dmg taken when I can be bothered to do MKD), Redingote/AFv2 body, Nashira hands, Evoker's Ring, AF+1 feet. Other gear macroed in is just smn torque/earring, novia earring (godsend when kiting), astute and afv2+1 legs.