Which is the best mythic weapon

[drwaffles]

Yagrush is fantastic, if only all the people wasting their time on Burtgangs were smart enough to get a Yagrush for their shell's main WHM. Yagrush is to status cures what Gjallarhorn is to Ballad. Esuna doesn't even compare - having to be afflicted with the ailment yourself, having to run into range in order to cast it, the long recast time, having to swap back and forth between Solace and Misery if required, the fact that it can't remove Silence or Petrification... If I remember rightly, the -na spells can actually be used to hit everyone in other parties as well if you target one of their members, unless they patched it?

Heh, imagine how easy it would be to induce a flail by doing that.

[Spider-Dan]

X-Bow: A mythic that can use Acid Bolts and Gold Musketeer's Bolt is damn broken if you ask me... but I'm not sure if anyone shares my opinion...

We don't even know if Gastraphetes is better than O-bow, much less other mythics/relics.

In particular, Gastraphetes is hamstrung by Aftermath (or lack thereof) because Trueflight is incredibly weak compared to Slug. That means that any bonuses you might get from Aftermath are immediately offset (and probably overwhelmed) by the huge cuts in WS damage that you are taking.

Gastraphetes would have to have an amazing +Snapshot effect (at least +10%) and near-perfect Barrage accuracy in order to even be on the table for consideration, IMO. Aftermath is essentially irrelevant.

As for the rest, I think Yoichi makes as big of an impact for SAM as Apoc does for DRK. I also think Aegis is being a little undersold, but w/e.

[Hex]

Our LS had been looking at what mythic to upgrade and we've pretty much settled upon doing 2 Yagrush. After seeing one in action we were sold. Allowing for a more low man situation is always more useful in my eyes.

[Kirschy]

I'm gonna disargee on Apoc changing the job. An agressive well-geared DRK should have the same playstyle as an Apoc user. But thats another topic I guess.

As a Mythic user, I can say I'm disappointed by how Liberator performs. While it does beat out traditional Scythes when keeping AM3 active, there are few situations where this is possible. As more sTP gear is being released though, it might become more powerful.

[Hanyoko]

RDM Sword is clearly the most useful so I don't accidentally kill myself with Convert.

(Every RDM has done it, gdi)

I just did it last night! dang heat breath from kirin....

One problem with most of these mythics is that there isnt enough data to really judge them all. Unless someone has upgraded each one already and I'm unaware. (curious what the thief ones does btw)

[Jeryhn]

I'm gonna disargee on Apoc changing the job. An agressive well-geared DRK should have the same playstyle as an Apoc user. But thats another topic I guess.

As a Mythic user, I can say I'm disappointed by how Liberator performs. While it does beat out traditional Scythes when keeping AM3 active, there are few situations where this is possible. As more sTP gear is being released though, it might become more powerful.

Or... if they just patched Aftermaths to overwrite each other regardless of level, mythic weapons would be very powerful, and rightly so.

[byte]

Whm. No questions asked (imo).

[Gergall]

I just did it last night! dang heat breath from kirin....

One problem with most of these mythics is that there isnt enough data to really judge them all. Unless someone has upgraded each one already and I'm unaware. (curious what the thief ones does btw)

Census shows that some weapons haven't been touched yet. BST is an example.

Speculation for BST is a "TP Bonus" effect added to Sic, and/or possible removal of 100% TP requirement to use Sic.

[TaruMortis]

WHM, which is why I'm upgrading mine!

[Araius]

The trouble with BLU weapon is the aftermath requires that you actually use a WS. In many situations, the BLU wouldn't even be able to get the full benefit of the weapon, if they're using their TP on CA before getting 100%. In some cases it's great, but in others it's not nearly worth the effort. The same argument could probably be made for DNC too.

I'd go with WHM as well.

[Shinta]

Yagrush is fantastic, if only all the people wasting their time on Burtgangs were smart enough to get a Yagrush for their shell's main WHM. Yagrush is to status cures what Gjallarhorn is to Ballad. Esuna doesn't even compare - having to be afflicted with the ailment yourself, having to run into range in order to cast it, the long recast time, having to swap back and forth between Solace and Misery if required, the fact that it can't remove Silence or Petrification... If I remember rightly, the -na spells can actually be used to hit everyone in other parties as well if you target one of their members, unless they patched it?

Heh, imagine how easy it would be to induce a flail by doing that.

I agree with everything said, except that Esuna definitely does compare, and in some cases is better. Granted, a WHM with Yagrush still has Esuna, and I've thought it was the best Mythic Weapon long before the first Mythic was completed.

[Plow]

Esuna is not even close. Try esuna-ing a petri breath...

Esuna-ing roar is fun too.

Etc. etc.

Yagrush is an entirely different beast.

[Suiram]

I've been curious about this a long time, but what's wrong with the SAM weapon that people don't consider it one of the better mythics? Ignoring that the special Third Eye bonus seemed kind of lame, just in terms of keeping AM3 up fulltime, SAM should have the easiest go of that, too (even though Meditate timer doesn't quite sync up, I guess). Just when I think of it, I imagine a SAM using 300% Rana every 2min without too much effort, and spamming Gekko every 12 seconds in between. Is there some reason this isn't right, or else some reason why even though it's right it wouldn't be very good (or good enough to be worth spending your 100M on instead of Amano)?

[Plow]

7 lower damage, 2 wasted gekkos for every rana, not enough delay difference or stp to make a 5 hit significantly easier

the 2 lost gekkos is the main thing, add that to the difference in dmg per ws and you're talking about an awful lot of da's to make it up

[Suiram]

Well I've thought about this some. As for the the difference in WS dmg, since the AM3 DA can proc on WS (right?), wouldn't average WS damage be higher with Mythic AM3 on than with Hagun? Maybe there's flawed reasoning here (highly possible, since I've only thought about this casually and am not really invested in the point of view lol) but I'm thinking 1.5625 fTP hit half the time and 1.5625+1.0 hit half the time averages out to higher WS dmg than 1.875 fTP WSs. This wasn't taking into account the lower base damage though.

As for the increase in WS, that would require more thought than just "50% more WS" because you have to take into account the times when your AM3 DA overshoots 100% TP, but still, I guess I don't see why it's so quickly written off.

Edit: Oh, when you said 7 base dmg I just assumed that it was lower than Hagun, but you were talking about Amano. I don't really know what Amano users do, so I guess what I wrote doesn't apply to that.

[Shinta]

Esuna is not even close. Try esuna-ing a petri breath...

Esuna-ing roar is fun too.

Etc. etc.

Yagrush is an entirely different beast.

Yeah, for sure. Those are good examples. There are alot of other examples though where Esuna compares pretty closely, and a few where I think it's something I would use even if I had a Yagrush. In a lot of situations, it can compare pretty closely, which is what I said. Glad people are finally considering sponsoring a Yagrush for their shell's WHM, something I've been waiting for people to catch up on for a while.

Not to mention, if you ever intend to use Yagrush to melee, it compares even more closely to Esuna since you will be in range.

[Plow]

Well I've thought about this some. As for the the difference in WS dmg, since the AM3 DA can proc on WS (right?), wouldn't average WS damage be higher with Mythic AM3 on than with Hagun? Maybe there's flawed reasoning here (highly possible, since I've only thought about this casually and am not really invested in the point of view lol) but I'm thinking 1.5625 fTP hit half the time and 1.5625+1.0 hit half the time averages out to higher WS dmg than 1.875 fTP WSs. This wasn't taking into account the lower base damage though.

As for the increase in WS, that would require more thought than just "50% more WS" because you have to take into account the times when your AM3 DA overshoots 100% TP, but still, I guess I don't see why it's so quickly written off.

Edit: Oh, when you said 7 base dmg I just assumed that it was lower than Hagun, but you were talking about Amano. I don't really know what Amano users do, so I guess what I wrote doesn't apply to that.

I'm definitely not claiming expertise on this one, just how I understood it.

But what makes Amano so good is the combination of Kaiten, needing little acc gear elsewhere, the crazy base dmg, and the 2.5. A single 2.5 proc makes up for any double attack on a gekko.


I think the main reason it's written off is because it's up for debate if it's better than hagun, at 30+ times the cost. Amano opens up double light, has crazy base damage, and Kaiten is rather ridiculous.

[miokomioko]

Yagrush & Kenkonken, hands down. They are effective enough to change gear sets and strategies around how you play the job. That's when you're getting your money's worth out of such an accomplishment as a mythic/relic.

[Tsuko_Asura]

PLD, WHM and possibly SMN. Haven't seen that any testing on the latter.

<Obligatory 'I understand Burtgang has one or two situational uses' disclaimer here>

That out of the way, I don't even see how anyone could think paladin gets much out of the sword. Even mediocre weapons like Tizona and.. whatever the dancer weapon is, get more actual use out of their purchase. If anything, outside of the weapons that are flat-out useless, Burtgang probably has the 'least' to offer its user, just because the list of events where using it is optimal is absurdly short.


Anyway, as far as who gets the most? White mage and puppetmaster, hands down.

[Kenji]

I'll go against the crowd, and toss this out there: PUP, SMN, and DNC(and possibly DRG and BST). And mainly because these three jobs don't have an ultimate weapon that really enhances them the way a mythic does.

PUP - Overloads much less, and the aftermath works great because Stringing Pummel is a great WS for PUP.

SMN - With all the pet: MAB gear coming out, we're pretty much at the point where leaving an avatar out to melee results in some interesting damage potential. Perp cost is either extremely low no, or free, and thus outputting 2k hateless nukes puts it almost on par with a BLM (and please note that I said "almost"). BLMs can obviously sleepga and do ga spells, and can output more damage by spamming spells. But they are generally limited by hate in longer situations.

DNC - Although I don't know too much about this particular one and how it goes with DNC, I remember hearing that it's positive.

BST (and possibly DRG) - Haven't heard of anyone upgrading BST, but the double attack from both master and pet seems to have some potential in theory; which is partially why I added DRG one here. In a zerg situation where you can store up 300 TP beforehand, both could potentially outdo Relic.

WHM isn't as great as it's made out to be. It's essentially Conserve MP+5 when casting some status cures. Most things I find with nasty status effects, toss them out there more than 1 at a time. Esuna's ability to remove 2 effects at once, is thus a saving in time and mp cost.

So Yagrush is situational at best. Just like the PLD and RDM weapons are situational at best. But let me back this up with logic, and go through the status removals:

First, the ones you can remove without needing Misery:
Poison - I generally don't remove anyway, as it keeps my melee awake and it's rarely threatening. I usually only remove it if MP is no issue, I'm bored, and there's no danger of sleeps.

Paralyze - Possibly a win for yagrush, although I've found there's very few paralyze's that are very strong. WHM has strong MND, so doesn't freeze up as much. Against something like Cerb's Udulation, Esuna works just fine. The only two nasty paralyzes I've found, are from wyverns and chariots. So in the interests of fairness, yagrush would hold an advantage here. In my situation, wyverns aren't that dangerous, and chariots are carefully handled anyway.

Blind - Obviously not a big deal for WHM, so easily removed by Esuna.

Silence - Seems to be a win for Yagrush, but everyone who needs to cast any kind of magic should be carrying echo drops anyway. A better use of 90 mil might be buying echo drops for everyone until the day they quit the game. Also, I find that melee are generally faster on using an echo drop, so my silena ends up having no effect anyway.

Needs Misery active:
Curse - As with poison and paralyze, there are very few bad aoe curse effects. Most just reduce HP by a bit, so you can usually wait til it wears off and save your mp for cures. Some have movement speed slowing effects, though standing in range to get hit by aoe curse and using Esuna is no big deal. The only big one is the Chaos Blade from certain dragons. But that's generally not something that will affect your entire party. If you go up against them in, say, Einherjar, people should be carrying Holy Water anyway, since it helps against taurus doom as well. Also, it's worth noting that Cursna(30mp) cots more MP than Esuna(24mp), so if you want to be mp efficient, Esuna is the better route to go.

Virus/Disease - Two types of this. The first just prevents healing of hp/mp when resting. Obviously, I assume good whms aren't bothering to remove this, except from themselves when they need to rest. The second can be nasty, like Buffalo Lowing, which drains HP, MP, and TP. It's easy enough to stay in range and get hit with this, then remove it quickly with Esuna. Viruna(48mp) also costs twice as much as Esuna(24mp), so it's more mp efficient to stick with Esuna.

Stona - To be fair and objective, this is one category that Yagrush wins hands down. So if you really want to spend 90 mil to be able to aoe stona, go for it. Again, it's not something, in my experience, that's really threatening, based on the mobs that use aoe stone. If you have trouble against Dynamis Scorpion pets, then I suppose you should look into it. I find stone generally doesn't last long, if I've put up a strong Barpetra and Bartstona. Hell, I tend tend to outright resist almost a third of them if I have my buffs up. And in those cases, Divine Seal is usually up so I can do AoE stona anyway.

Erase - Covers every other status ailment. In my experience, anything that has any kind of aoe that needs to be removed by erase immediately, is usually safe enough for a WHM to stand in close enough to hit everyone with Esuna. And quite a few that have that nasty aoe status debuff, usually put up 2 status debuffs at the same time, ie, Einherjar triple bats. So Esuna comes out the big time and mp saver anyway.

I'll gladly hear exceptions, but in my experience based on all the mobs that I've fought, stone and possibly silence and paralyze are about the only three spells that Yagrush would give you an advantage on. And only if your melee want to be cheap on echos.

The last few differences, would have to do with mp costs and time. If you've got a decent haste/fast cast setup, Esuna's recast can be cut to 15 seconds. There are an extremely few situations, where a debuff is both nasty enough, and spammed more than 15 seconds. And while 15 seconds seems like a lot of time, since it's generally removing 2 debuffs at a time, it comes out ahead on time and mp cost.

Esuna also shines on stuff like soulflayer tribulation.

All the mythics have some kind of value. But the value being defined here, seems to be "worth spending 90 mil and a whole lot of time on." In that light, 90 mil to do something I can do anyway, doesn't seem like a wise investment to me. It may as well read:

Latent Effect: When casting some status removal spells, you get Conserve MP+5. But on a couple others, you use more MP.

I really wanted to like the WHM weapon. If it had at least 11% cure potency on it, then it would have been fairly nice. Hell, for the money spent, it should have had 15%. But it's a macro piece, just like Murgleis and Nagi (and only for 2 spells, really). And like those two weapons, it's quite easy to get along without them, if one uses a bit of intelligence in how one plays.

You're free to disagree; I can respect someone who disagrees, as long as they can offer a logical counterpart as to why they disagree.