Which is the best mythic weapon

[Demosthenes11]

idk why anyone responds seriously to anything Kenji says. Still think kclub zerg is an exploit Kenji?

Arguing that a whm should stay in range is pretty idiotic, especially when your argument is "stoneskin, poison pots and sublimation!!!"

[miokomioko]

Is someone really arguing against the capability of never having to step into AoE dmg and being able to wipe 5~6 people's detrimental effects with one cast 100% of the time?

How?

[Ultimagi]

Nobody is saying that Yagrush isn't useful. The point is it's not going to replace Esuna in all situations. Esuna generates a lot less enmity than casting, say, Blindna and Erase on up to 5 targets at once.

[Shinta]

Nobody is saying that Yagrush isn't useful. The point is it's not going to replace Esuna in all situations. Esuna generates a lot less enmity than casting, say, Blindna and Erase on up to 5 targets at once.

This, but more so Cura is the argument for standing in range. MP efficiency from Cura, that is the main argument. So if you are ever attempting to use Cura, then Esuna and Yagrush do very similar things and a WHM using Cura/Esuna well in the right situation can pull ahead of a backline WHM using a Yagrush because of MP efficiency and the ability to remove two effects at once. That and enmity, Esuna/Cura would definitely generate less enmity than Yagrush-Na/Curaga II.

Even then though, anyone with a Yagrush also has Cura and Esuna and can use whatever they want, and they can status cure other parties so it's still easily the best mythic in my eyes. Esuna can compare to it in some situations though.

Also, Sacrifice is a really useful spell to be consistently using on your tank because even the best healer will miss certain things if they are busy or if they get separated. A quick cast of Sacrifice works like Scan almost, removing virtually any effect that is on your tank. Someone using a Yagrush would likely never use Sacrifice at all.

[laverna]

Here is my list of most useful determined as before said criteria. Also some have good potential as well as some winning by default because that job does not have a Relic.

Aymur – BST
Death Penalty – COR
Gastraphetes – RNG
Kenkonken – PUP
Ryunohige – DRG
Yagrush – WHM
Nirvana- SMN
Terpsichore - DNC


I agree with the majority on PUP and WHM as the 2 best as well. They are no just more damage or a faster kill but do alter how the job is played.

[urat]

Well since most people arent understanding how good the terp is, I'll toss in my two cents. I don't feel it is quite the best mythic, pld and whm look pretty hot, as does pup, but terp in the hands of a DD dnc build is actually kinda broken. I'll give quick dnc 101.

Everytime we perform a step we get 2 finishes, which cap at 5, we use finishes to perform flourishes, most commonly you've seen is prolly reverse flourish. Now generally most dncs wait for all 5/5 finishes, or at least 4/5 finishes to perform this, giving us the most tp.

In other word, reverse flourish stores tp in the form of steps, generally taking 3 for a cost of 30 tp, then returning it as 60 tp, or 80 tp fully meritted.

Terpischore gives us an extra finish per step, allowing us to reach 5/5 finishes in only 2 steps, not 3, with an extra finish in there, allowing us to build up to capped RF in 30 secs, not 45, AND toss in a freebie desperate flourish (gravity) or violent flourish (stun).

Now then, if you do the math, that means were getting 20 tp turned into 80, plus a free stun/gravity, in 2/3 the time it took to just convert 30 tp into 80.

To compare it to a more well known job, imagine if rdm mythic took off 33% delay of convert.

But it gets better, the ultimate combo for a dancer, building flourish -> no foot rise -> pyric kleos -> reverse flourish -> eviscration, is made even more potent with a terpischore. Heres how.

First off, BF adds +30% dmg to next ws, NRFR restores finishes, generally dncs will merit it to 3, so that BFs cost of 3 finishes is repaired putting them back at 5/5 for reverse flourish to come.

Now with terp, a dnc could merit NFR to 5/5, and remove it from the equation and replace it with a quickstep or boxstep, then pop NFR at the end of the super combo, giving them 5/5 finishes even after blowing the mob to kingdom come, allowing them to immeaditly pop RF asap, be at full tp immeaditly, then perform 2 steps with terp, and do it all over again.

With this, a dnc will be able to perform the super combo every 1 minute. A dnc/sam with terp with full haste and tp store build could very well out tp a generic sam. Maybe.

[Gergall]

Okay urat, you have convinced me that terp is a really good mythic weapon. Unlike many of the other mythics, I would not consider terp to be a waste of alexandrite.

I do think you made a booboo though:

With this, a dnc will be able to perform the super combo every 1 minute.

Every 1 minute? NFR is 3 minute recast.

[Kenji]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a white mage can't survive in range with the best of them, the point is, why subject yourself to unnecessary damage? That's more MP spent curing yourself and reapplying Stoneskin.

Because in aoe situations, I can cast Cura (great mp efficiency), or I'm casting curaga anyway. So there's NO net mp loss over standing back. And even if you are standing back, stoneskin is still smart because a mob can always smack you, or a someone near you pulls hate and it comes over and aoes.

So, there's virtually no mp difference between standing close and standing at a distance. Of course, this is dependant upon mob and situation, but in my experience, I can survive just fine up close 90% of the time.

It's really never acceptable for a WHM to purposefully get hit with Paralyze. That is potentially one of the most detrimental effects ever for a WHM if it's a strong paralyze. These are examples where Yagrush shines, easily.

*IF* it's a strong paralyze. In my experience, most paralyzes are actually fairly weak to a WHM, due to higher MND. Again, as I pointed out in my first post, Chariot and Wyvern paralyze are the only ones I can think of off hand, that a WHM shouldn't be in range for. Wyvern's paralyze is fairly strong for several moments, but gradually gets weaker. Salvage Chariots are just nasty aoe, and the paralyze can be a nuisance.

Note that melee's will have a distorted view, since they have lower MND, and they notice delays between their weapon swings more, due to a proc, so it seems worse to them. It's not as bad on a WHM. I find the fear is stronger than reason in most people.

I agree with this last part, but wonder why you talk about SS on Skeletons

Cura works, yes. But the main reason is blood saber. Maybe some don't realize, but if you have stoneskin up, it doesn't drain HP from you. Less HP the skeleton receives, less it heals itself. Cureskins help here as well. If I've got the mp, even a cure I or II on people to keep stoneskins up can help speed things up.

And I generally only mention stoneskin if a WHM has trouble staying alive. In quite a few situations, I don't cast it, since any damage taken will be cured up when I do a Cura or Curaga. Which are more mp efficient spells than normal cures, and even regens.

idk why anyone responds seriously to anything Kenji says. Still think kclub zerg is an exploit Kenji?

Arguing that a whm should stay in range is pretty idiotic, especially when your argument is "stoneskin, poison pots and sublimation!!!"

Hi! How's the trolling going? Still spouting off things that you can't back up? You're so cute! I'd ask you to quote things and provide links, but I know you can't, so we'll just smile, shake our heads, and move on to actual discussion.

Btw, your Ein LS must be awesome, if everyone goes in without poison pots!

[TaruMortis]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Demosthenes11]

Btw, your Ein LS must be awesome, if everyone goes in without poison pots!

lol
go back to sky and let the big guys talk about actually fighting things that aren't Byakko or the big bad cerberus in nyzul

[urat]

Okay urat, you have convinced me that terp is a really good mythic weapon. Unlike many of the other mythics, I would not consider terp to be a waste of alexandrite.

I do think you made a booboo though:



Every 1 minute? NFR is 3 minute recast.

Hmmm, you are correct sir didnt take that into account, my bad.

I think though you could do it in a 3 minute cycle of super combo -> build up to 100 and super combo manually without nfr.

By the time you've pulled off your second super combo NFR will be back up and ready and you can perform another double.

Not only that but I forgot to take into account that the terp is boosting you from the pyrrick kleos at the start of the super combo, enhancing it and eviscration. This would be espicially potent if the dnc saved up to 300% tp, adding the double attack effect stacked with saber dance to both PK and eviscration.

That would be a useful move for a big strong mob, as pop nm for a friend or something, build up the 300% tp on smaller weaker mobs nearbye then just unload it all at once.

[Spider-Dan]

Cura works, yes. But the main reason is blood saber. Maybe some don't realize, but if you have stoneskin up, it doesn't drain HP from you. Less HP the skeleton receives, less it heals itself.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. As I recall, when used on a target with Stoneskin, I believe drain attacks still absorb HP from the skin itself.

[Aksannyi]

Lol @ poison pots in Einherjar...

[Atoreis]

relic on the other hand, provide more to what the DD community actually wants (nope, not talking about clastrum)

Not really, Relic in the other hand has only base dmg and daley

[Jeryhn]

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. As I recall, when used on a target with Stoneskin, I believe drain attacks still absorb HP from the skin itself.

Nope, because you're damaging the skin but not pulling HP off the target.

Can test on any decently leveled mob with Stoneskin. Drain him, you'll deal damage to the skin, but you won't recover HP.

[urat]

Nope, because you're damaging the skin but not pulling HP off the target.

Can test on any decently leveled mob with Stoneskin. Drain him, you'll deal damage to the skin, but you won't recover HP.

I can second this, drain samba has no effect on a stoneskinned mob until it wears, I cant quite recall if I even drain, but if so I only drain for 0.

[Damane]

Cura works, yes. But the main reason is blood saber. Maybe some don't realize, but if you have stoneskin up, it doesn't drain HP from you. Less HP the skeleton receives, less it heals itself. Cureskins help here as well. If I've got the mp, even a cure I or II on people to keep stoneskins up can help speed things up.

And I generally only mention stoneskin if a WHM has trouble staying alive. In quite a few situations, I don't cast it, since any damage taken will be cured up when I do a Cura or Curaga. Which are more mp efficient spells than normal cures, and even regens.

you know everytime I used stoneskin and got 0 dmg from blood saber/any move and used cura right away, I healed everyon fro 60HP... I am still trying to find out where your cura with a potency of curaga II is comeing when you have stoneskin up?

esuna is only usefull in some situation where you want to be in, soulflyers for example is such a situation, or the dvergr in the assault to remove m.def down, macc down and m.attk down. However yagrush will beat esuna. just by the fact that you dont need to be near anything and can do the same like with esuna but you can stay on solace for stoneskin healing! Not to mention the gamebreaking fact of healing a whole alliance of status ailments in 3 casts! off course for some situations esuna still works better, but I think every whm that manages to get a yagrush really knows which situations call out for this!

[Byrd]

Maybe a stupid question, but ...

Is the proc rate of Paralyze established when a spell is cast or when the action is taken that has a chance to get Paralyzed? Presumably, the caster's MND is established at spell cast time, but what about the target's MND? Basically, if I'm doing an action while paralyzed, would adding MND gear reduce the chance of Paralyze kicking in? Has anyone done testing on this?

I guess I'm wondering if it would it make sense to macro +MND gear if I'm paralyzed and trying to cast Paralyna on myself. My thought is it would make no difference, but the question had never occurred to me before this conversation.

[urat]

Actually resist para gear appears to lower your chances of getting the paralyzed message on top of the chance of being parad in first place.

In dyna jueno I put on a good 5 pieces of resist para gear on the beastmen sections, and rarely resisted but did notice that whilst spamming my JAs, which is about 1 JA every 4-5 seconds, I rarely ever got the para message, generally about once every 2-3 waves.

With 0 resist para gear on I was in a pretty permenant state of paralyzed, unable to do anything.

[Spider-Dan]

I can second this, drain samba has no effect on a stoneskinned mob until it wears, I cant quite recall if I even drain, but if so I only drain for 0.

This doesn't really prove anything, as Drain Samba is calculated as a percentage of the damage you dealt; if you hit for 0 (because of stoneskin, or dyn-tav acid mist, or debilitating roar, or dyn-bubu scissor guard, etc.) then you will necessarily drain for 0.

The example that is coming to my mind is bloody bolts; I have the distinct recollection that bloody bolts still restore HP (to me) when used on a mob that has stoneskin up. I'll have to test it.