The MMA Thread of 2009-Forever

[FNH]

I think shogun will do better in a rematch because he now knows what works ( going for the body) but will push it more toward the end of rounds to try to finish it. He was told he was winning by points so he didn't try to force a finish which hurt him.

[Chips]

I think shogun will do better in a rematch because he now knows what works ( going for the body) but will push it more toward the end of rounds to try to finish it. He was told he was winning by points so he didn't try to force a finish which hurt him.

I'm not sure, I think the opposite is true regarding a rematch now that Lyoto knows his gameplan in and out, there's not much else Shogun can surprise him with.

[archibaldcrane]

Boy, I can't wait to watch these two guys fight each other tentatively, trying to slowly out-point one another again for 5 rounds.

:eyeroll:

[arus2001]

So, I started peeking at this thread when talk of the power ranger dude wanting to fight sprung up. Any further developments on that?

[Blarg]

The first round has to be the one that is the cause of the controversy. Rd 2 for lyoto makes sense and round 3 is really quite close to the point where it could be a draw so it's not too egregious for the judges to see it for lyoto. 4 and 5 are fairly well set for shogun so that leaves round 1. I think shogun won it but I think the fact that lyoto got like 4-5 good knees to the body in the clinch right at the start made me somewhat forget about it near the end of the round making what shogun did seem more lopsided. In re watches i can see how it's possible that a judge could see rd1 for lyoto but for (I think) not even 1 judge giving rd1 to shogun seems very strange.

I don't know if the judges were mystified by his 'only hit once every 2.5 rounds' so they were thinking that ever time shogun landed he was really missing because 2.5 rounds hadn't passed yet for his 1 allowed strike.

[Gryffes]

"First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that."

"When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control. I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favour, where as ununsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I'm just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I'm sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too."

This.

[Ohemgee]

Man thats saying "we only favor the fighter who we thought hit the hardest"

As Dana White and Joe Rogan said, we need to revamp the whole scoring method.



All hits, whether clean or not deal damage. Its stupid to have a grazed hit on the head that knocks a guy down(L1 + []) vs and clean hit (like a fast jab) that does jack shit get more points.

[BadKarma]

My friend bought a Tapout shirt after I made him watch the last UFC fights. He now thinks hes an expert. Can I bitchslap him now or wait till I hear him say something stupid?

[Gryffes]

My friend bought a Tapout shirt after I made him watch the last UFC fights. He now thinks hes an expert. Can I bitchslap him now or wait till I hear him say something stupid?

Bitchslap pre-purchase.

[tyven]

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Brock Lesnar Pulls Out of UFC 106 Title Fight With ShaneCarwin - Bloody Elbow

[BadKarma]

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Brock Lesnar Pulls Out of UFC 106 Title Fight With ShaneCarwin - Bloody Elbow

I think its less that Lesnar is sick and more DW wanting them to fight on NYE



Also it looks like Ortiz V Griffin at 106 as well, unless I'm a bit late.

[tyven]

late on forrest.

brock vs les @ NYE would be tight but shane's layover since his last fight would be so huge

[archibaldcrane]

Lame. Did he catch swine flu or something?

[Auronx]

Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
Kevin Iole, Yahoo!: 48-47 Rua
Dave Doyle, Yahoo!: 48-47 Rua
Dave Meltzer, Yahoo!: 49-46 Rua
BloodyElbow: 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua
ESPN: 49-46 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Adam Hill, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 48-47 Machida

From -> Machida-Shogun

Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149.
Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116.

Shogun had 55% accuracy
Lyoto had 36% accuracy

Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots).
Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots).

Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body
Shogun landed 16 shots to the body

Shogun landed 49 leg kicks.
Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks.

Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance.
Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance.

Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch.
Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch.

Shogun worked Lyoto imo.

[Auronx]

Sorry for the double reply but this post is more towards Lesnar's situation. I think BK is right about Dana wanting brock on the NYE card. With brock on the card its guaranteed to bring in a big draw which in turn will appeal towards anderson silva and get him off the fence of whether or not to fight Vitor Belfort on the NYE card since Silva said he only wants to be on cards with large drawing power.

[Chips]

Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149.
Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116.

Shogun had 55% accuracy
Lyoto had 36% accuracy

Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots).
Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots).

Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body
Shogun landed 16 shots to the body

Shogun landed 49 leg kicks.
Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks.

Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance.
Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance.

Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch.
Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch.

Shogun worked Lyoto imo.

I agree Shogun won, but there's absolutely no way he was more accurate (and even if he was, he certainly did not land more than 1/2 of every strike thrown, that's a complete joke). He threw waaay more strikes than Lyoto and missed a fuckload of times. That stat alone makes me weary of the rest of the stats.

[Auronx]

I agree Shogun won, but there's absolutely no way he was more accurate (and even if he was, he certainly did not land more than 1/2 of every strike thrown, that's a complete joke). He threw waaay more strikes than Lyoto and missed a fuckload of times. That stat alone makes me weary of the rest of the stats.

Go watch the fight its not like you can argue with stats. Shogun blocked a majority of Lyoto's strikes with his forearms or slipped them. People seem to forget how dominant Shogun was when he won the Pride GP Championship. He was considered unbeatable at that point. He had a lackluster start in the UFC due to having his knees reconstructed twice but hes gotten his game back together and hes still fucking young. He is like 27 or 28 so hes got quite a few years left in his career and I can only see him improving.

[noblemountain]

So, I started peeking at this thread when talk of the power ranger dude wanting to fight sprung up. Any further developments on that?

Nothing yet, I left some messages and haven't gotten anything back. I have a tentative fight scheduled in February, working on another one for December, but would cancel either for that opportunity.

[noblemountain]

Go watch the fight its not like you can argue with stats. Shogun blocked a majority of Lyoto's strikes with his forearms or slipped them. People seem to forget how dominant Shogun was when he won the Pride GP Championship. He was considered unbeatable at that point. He had a lackluster start in the UFC due to having his knees reconstructed twice but hes gotten his game back together and hes still fucking young. He is like 27 or 28 so hes got quite a few years left in his career and I can only see him improving.

Read the last post of the last page. He broke down every round. Those numbers aren't correct, I saw the compubox numbers that were totally different.

[Auronx]

Read the last post of the last page. He broke down every round. Those numbers aren't correct, I saw the compubox numbers that were totally different.

Fightmetric.com has broken down pretty much all modern day fights from the UFC/Dream/and I think strikeforce. I'm pretty sure that they are trustworthy when examining a fight.

There staff includes...

John Henry

John is an Assistant Professor of Mathematics whose research has
focused on extreme value theory with applications in environmental/ecological and actuarial science. Dr. Henry received his PhD in statistics from Oregon State University in 2008. John is also an MMA fighter, winning the light heavyweight title in his last amateur fight with Brass Knuckles Cage Fighting Promotions. He has recently turned pro, and is currently training with the HIT Squad in Granite City, IL.

Reed Kuhn

Reed first got hooked on MMA as a teenager in the early 90’s, but rediscovered the sport in grad school while working on statistical analysis of the NFL. Since 2005, he has not missed a single televised MMA event, has traveled as far as Germany to attend live UFC events, and credits The Ultimate Fighter show for making his wife a fan (and thus, partially accepting of his MMA habit). He is a strategy management consultant by trade, with a BS in Physics, a Master’s in Systems Engineering, and an MBA from Duke University specializing in Operations and Decision Sciences.

Leland Roling

Leland is currently a Staff Writer for BloodyElbow.com, one of the most popular blogs on the Internet covering the sport of mixed martial arts. He is also a full-time professional web developer who builds data-driven websites that make the Internet work for you. In his free time, he is President of the Melvin Manhoef Fan Club, watches way too much MMA, and passionately awaits the Chicago Cubs World Series title, which, quite frankly, will probably kill him.

Brian Reich

Brian received a PhD in biostatistics from the University of Minnesota
in 2005, and is currently an assistant professor of statistics at North
Carolina State University. His research interests include modeling
spatial and spatio-temporal data, environmental applications, Bayesian
methods, and nonparametric statistics. For more information, please
view his website.