Fully meritted Focalization vs. Elemental Seal

[Ultimagi]

thats what i believe. which is why i stated that ele seal nuke usually goes to 1/8 or 1/4 resist if it was fully resisted w/o ele seal in my 1st post.

The screenshot in the last page was 1/2 damage. So if this is the case, then the damage gets bumped up from 1/8 to 1/2.

[Virtuous Saint]

DUH! Explain how Elemental Sleepga is 100% accurate on anything but Paladins or Dark resistant enemies?

Well first thing's first, ES again, is not 100%. Secondly PLDs do not 'resist sleep' they merely posses 'resist sleep trait' the only time a PLD will resist sleep because it is a PLD is when you see 'Resist! The Aw'aern resists the spell! Dark resistant enemies resist it due to dark resistance which is exactly what sky gods have overly large amounts of. Basically what you have in sky gods are NMs that have extremely high elemental resistance, but have 1 resistance that is not nearly as high as all of the others. If anything I would assume that there could be a 'cap' set on certain spells for example Suzaku vs. silence. No matter how much magic acc you have, you can't exceed this cap, say 20% chance to land silence on Suzaku and once you attain that you can't have higher acc even with ES.

[Thorny]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/57252...ml#post1991634

screenshots lost from ancientness, but you can tell by the responses they were actually there

es isn't 100%, hurrrrrr

[Gergall]

Perhaps ES performs the regular accuracy calculations, determines the resists, and then bumps it up two tiers? Something like that could explain why seeing a resisted ESed nuke is so rare (would have had to have been a 1/8 resist or whatever), why ES-enfeebles are so reliable on non-immune, non-resist trait mobs even at absurdly low levels, and why it may be impossible to see resisted ES nuke on a level 0 mob.

This is worth investigating. If true, it should be impossible to get 1/16 resist on an ES nuke, right?

BTW: This is not a new concept for Final Fantasy. FF Tactics Advance has a BLM trait called Geomancy that causes all resists to drop a tier (absorbed nukes do 0, 0 dmg nukes do half dmg, half dmg nukes do full, full dmg nukes do double).

[Sephoroth]

It probably is magic accuracy +100% (note: NOT magic "hit rate" +100%, which would be an entirely different kettle of fish), just to parallel Divine Seal, but even with double the MAcc you're still going to see resists.

This actually seems like it could be right, Divine seal = Cure potency+100%, so whynot Ele seal = Magic acc+100% to just double what you currently have which still means its NOT 100% acc and NEVER will be 100% acc just basically a double of what u currently have

[Ultimagi]

Notorious Monsters have resistances! Who knew?

[Thorny]

Notorious Monsters have resistances! Who knew?

It's a monster that's not sleep-immune and doesn't have a resist sleep trait failing to be slept by elemental sealed sleep multiple times. That's what you asked for, is it not?

[Suiram]

This is worth investigating. If true, it should be impossible to get 1/16 resist on an ES nuke, right?

I don't know if it's possible to get a 1/16 resist. At least I tried to get one once on Kuftal worms nuking elemental magic as BLU/BLM, and it wasn't happening for me. Although I guess that wouldn't discount the possibility of it being calculated anyway but capped at 1/8 as the lowest. But then you should have more instances of the low levels resisting sleep on HNM (unless enfeebles work differently).

Also, I didn't notice the blog post where the guy got 1/8 resist during ES. Maybe it wore off though and didn't notice? Do you have a screenshot of it by any chance?

Edit: I believe there are situations where you can do 1/16 of predicted damage, but I believe those to be cases of a combination of resist and element-specific damage cut.

[Nevex]

Well first thing's first, ES again, is not 100%. Secondly PLDs do not 'resist sleep' they merely posses 'resist sleep trait' the only time a PLD will resist sleep because it is a PLD is when you see 'Resist! The Aw'aern resists the spell! Dark resistant enemies resist it due to dark resistance which is exactly what sky gods have overly large amounts of. Basically what you have in sky gods are NMs that have extremely high elemental resistance, but have 1 resistance that is not nearly as high as all of the others. If anything I would assume that there could be a 'cap' set on certain spells for example Suzaku vs. silence. No matter how much magic acc you have, you can't exceed this cap, say 20% chance to land silence on Suzaku and once you attain that you can't have higher acc even with ES.

This.
In addition to that mobs have a series of hidden elemental traits that have nothing to do with elemental resistance or magic evasion.
Ghosts take 50% less damage from ice, but Bind and Paralyze still work extremely well on them.
ES can't bypass this elemental property.

The same concept can be applied with status effects, like Fafnir has "Sleep -95%" trait, but ES can bypass this instead. It can't bypass status immunities (i.e. ES dark sleep will never land on skeletons).

This logic works until you realize that ES bind and ES silence can or can not land on something like Suz, though...

[Khamsin]

I don't give a fuck about a wild hare buddy. I never ever said it couldn't bring you to 100% land on something.

What do you mean by "bring you to 100%"? It either is or isn't.

If you go nuke one mob and get a resist, it's not 0%. It's (arbitrarily, say) 98%. If you nuke another mob and land it, it's not now 50%, it's still the same 98%. The rate is the rate, whether we know it or not. It just won't start to show itself until after thousands of trials under various conditions.

[Virtuous Saint]

This.
In addition to that mobs have a series of hidden elemental traits that have nothing to do with elemental resistance or magic evasion.
Ghosts take 50% less damage from ice, but Bind and Paralyze still work extremely well on them.
ES can't bypass this elemental property.

The same concept can be applied with status effects, like Fafnir has "Sleep -95%" trait, but ES can bypass this instead. It can't bypass status immunities (i.e. ES dark sleep will never land on skeletons).

This logic works until you realize that ES bind and ES silence can or can not land on something like Suz, though...

Actually they are immune to paralyze, but your bind statement still works perfectly, the immunity to paralyze is irrelevant.

[Sifer]

Edit: I believe there are situations where you can do 1/16 of predicted damage, but I believe those to be cases of a combination of resist and element-specific damage cut.

there are very few mobs in this game that have elemental specific damage cut (cant think of any atm).

[Suiram]

there are very few mobs in this game that have elemental specific damage cut (cant think of any atm).

Ghosts as just mentioned. Bombs. Yovras. (Probably) elementals. Sandworm. There are actually quite a few.

[Virtuous Saint]

What do you mean by "bring you to 100%"? It either is or isn't.

If you go nuke one mob and get a resist, it's not 0%. It's (arbitrarily, say) 98%. If you nuke another mob and land it, it's not now 50%, it's still the same 98%. The rate is the rate, whether we know it or not. It just won't start to show itself until after thousands of trials under various conditions.

Um no, the statement means this: I have ridiculously high acc against a certain target so with ES acc boost I actually become 100% resist free, but that doesn't mean ES makes everything 100% resist free. I ES something where I have low acc, with ES I am at 95% now. Basically tho, ES does not ever make you 100% acc, as can be seen in the statement by the BLM ES nuking a wild rabbit and getting resisted.

[Sifer]

Ghosts as just mentioned. Bombs. Yovras. (Probably) elementals. Sandworm. There are actually quite a few.

ghosts take reduced damage from all damage I believe. Bombs im not too sure about, I know they have high magic resistance to all elements but fire, cant say I've tested it in the last 4 or so years tho (cant say I understood magic resistance too well back then). Sandworm i'll take your word for it. still not enough mobs tho, I'll try to ES nuke some stuff tomorrow prolly and see what happens.

[Sifer]

This actually seems like it could be right, Divine seal = Cure potency+100%, so whynot Ele seal = Magic acc+100% to just double what you currently have which still means its NOT 100% acc and NEVER will be 100% acc just basically a double of what u currently have

Suggested that on 1st page but supposedly pchan's 40 nin can ES sleep imps in mire. a 20 blm wont have half a 75 blm's accuracy (unless m.acc has a large base value).

anyway it can be easily tested by trying ES sleepga on imps in mire as 20 blm.

[Virtuous Saint]

In my opinion they just simply made some things cap in acc, example being silence on Suzaku. You can silence Suzaku with or without ES, but ES does not appear to increase your acc in the slightest, and on the other hand you can probably ES Gravity Suzaku with almost 100% success, which shows that wind resistance really isn't playing a role in its resistance rate. Basically the thought here is that the % chance of landing Silence on Suzaku caps at some point and ES doesn't break this, as it shouldn't. Obviously they didn't want you to be able to ES silence Suzaku and have no threat of death from chainspell, but I don't know why they didn't just make it immune.

But the argument at hand: I have gotten resisted from enfeebling magic and elemental magic on normal mobs with ES that were not resistant to a certain element. Whether you believe or not I really do not care, but the entire reason for all this arguing was due to ultimagi or w/e saying both myself and pchan were idiots, when in fact it was ultimagi who was the idiot.

[Virtuous Saint]

ghosts take reduced damage from all damage I believe. Bombs im not too sure about, I know they have high magic resistance to all elements but fire, cant say I've tested it in the last 4 or so years tho (cant say I understood magic resistance too well back then). Sandworm i'll take your word for it. still not enough mobs tho, I'll try to ES nuke some stuff tomorrow prolly and see what happens.

Actually ghosts take full damage from everything but ice, and bombs take only full damage from fire.

[Chen]

i've been 75 blm a long time, and have never seen any resists on *enfeebles* from any mobs without a particular resistance.

having done x's knife 40~ times for example, were sleepga won't land without ES, and having 100% accuracy with ES sleepga on all three mithras every single time, similiarly for the 2nd blm in the group. you'd have thought that if there was a 95% cap we'd have seen at least 1 resist in our 40runsx2 casts each x 3 targets, 0/240? resists. k.

elemental magic i can't speak for though

[Drai]

In my opinion they just simply made some things cap in acc, example being silence on Suzaku. You can silence Suzaku with or without ES, but ES does not appear to increase your acc in the slightest, and on the other hand you can probably ES Gravity Suzaku with almost 100% success, which shows that wind resistance really isn't playing a role in its resistance rate. Basically the thought here is that the % chance of landing Silence on Suzaku caps at some point and ES doesn't break this, as it shouldn't. Obviously they didn't want you to be able to ES silence Suzaku and have no threat of death from chainspell, but I don't know why they didn't just make it immune.

But the argument at hand: I have gotten resisted from enfeebling magic and elemental magic on normal mobs with ES that were not resistant to a certain element. Whether you believe or not I really do not care, but the entire reason for all this arguing was due to ultimagi or w/e saying both myself and pchan were idiots, when in fact it was ultimagi who was the idiot.

is it possible gods have some sort of permanent Bar effect on as opposed to a resist trait for things like Silence? cause if I recall correctly with a Bar spell active it would just increase resistance to it, like Suzaku having an innate Bar Silence trait possibly? I don't recall seeing the Resist! message while having barspells active but I could be wrong.