Final Fantasy XIV @ gamescom 2009 (Updated)

[Chantal]

Lol you mean googled?

Were you all that good at FFXI? <.< because you don't sound like you have a very good grasp of what it takes to maximize your character's abilities; be it as a DD, a tank, or support of some kind.

[Yeargdribble]

Okay, people saying that hotbar style macro system is more limiting are just unfamiliar with the games that have them..

Afraid you can't make a full gear swap macro in a WoW type interface? Pull up your macro area, create a macro with 16 lines of gear swaps. Put it on the hotbar.

Afraid you can't put in text? Um... Sure you can. These systems are exactly like FFXI's system except instead of 6 lines you have something like 250 characters. You can fit plenty in that space and all that you want.

If you have a complaint it should be purely aesthetic complaining they are always visible or they are on the bottom or something. Because a WoW style system removes none of the physical abilities of FFXIs system and adds plenty.

To the aesthetic complaints, it seems that the UI will be movable like in LOTRO, so if you don't like it on the bottom or don't like it visible, you can probably move it to the top, fade the opacity all the way down, or even set it to only be opaque when active.

All pros... no cons. Essentially any argument beyond this is, "I like FFXI and everything else sucks... nothing should ever change."

[Baelorn]

All pros... no cons. Essentially any argument beyond this is, "I like FFXI and everything else sucks... nothing should ever change."

I have no problems with this style of UI but that's a silly statement. There is no perfect UI.

Hopefully there is no character limit. My chakra macro is almost 500 characters and it's pretty simple(unlike my HB macros)...Assuming there is anything similar to that in 14.

[Croy]

Okay, people saying that hotbar style macro system is more limiting are just unfamiliar with the games that have them..

Afraid you can't make a full gear swap macro in a WoW type interface? Pull up your macro area, create a macro with 16 lines of gear swaps. Put it on the hotbar.

Afraid you can't put in text? Um... Sure you can. These systems are exactly like FFXI's system except instead of 6 lines you have something like 250 characters. You can fit plenty in that space and all that you want.

If you have a complaint it should be purely aesthetic complaining they are always visible or they are on the bottom or something. Because a WoW style system removes none of the physical abilities of FFXIs system and adds plenty.

To the aesthetic complaints, it seems that the UI will be movable like in LOTRO, so if you don't like it on the bottom or don't like it visible, you can probably move it to the top, fade the opacity all the way down, or even set it to only be opaque when active.

All pros... no cons. Essentially any argument beyond this is, "I like FFXI and everything else sucks... nothing should ever change."

If anything there should be absolute zero complaints since it seems the hotbar UI disappears when you don't hover your mouse over it, thus unless you actually INTEND to play it using the hotbar clicks, it won't obstruct your view. And since this game is being designed around a controller again like FFXI, you can bet it will use a similar/expanded macro system that FFXI had where the shoulder buttons took the brunt of the hotbar/Ctrl1234 stuff etc. There really shouldn't be any complaining, I see nothing in this new UI system that should take away from the previous keyboard/pad setup. If anything some of it is a step back since it seems you can't click to lock on yet unlike in FFXI where you can. Hopefully thats just a product of it being in alpha and the UI isn't finalized yet.

I am perfectly happy with the UI and this is coming from a person that can't even stand playing FFXI on anything other than Keyboard/Pad and despises the hotbar system. (I love how I don't need to be constantly sitting up glued to the screen just so I have to keep both hands up towards the screen with the mouse and keyboard. Gamepad for the majority of the controls = I can lay back and just enjoy my playtime how I want to sit ). More options of control is almost never a bad thing.

To get more on topic, I also was interested in the possibilities of those ships. There certainly are a lot of ships in that city. Would be awesome if you could have your own personal ship if only for aesthetic reasons. More options to show off your avatar/toon/PC is a welcome addition in my book.

[BRP]

Lol you mean googled?

This is no different from any game really. You google/log onto a forum and then you learn it there. In Strategy games you don't even need to have a mastery of reflexes.

[Jimbobson]

You are completely incorrect. Getting bigger numbers is the main strategy of FFXI. Macros must be learned, gear sets must be learned. That is the skill. There is a gap of skill between players, those who do not understand gear sets.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it seems hard to make this argument. Most competent players will simply look up what they need to know or do. It's not as though everyone is learning what stats are needed for a given spell or ability on their own and then concocting a gear set from scratch. How many people here have actually done that?

Though even if we took that route, it still seems hard to claim that allowing gear set swaps mid-combat equates to a higher skill level, since there's no downside to gear swapping. A melee going to a merit party can make a tp gear set focused entirely on things like store tp, haste, accuracy without really worrying about his WS modifiers. Similarly, his WS set can be focused entirely on his modifiers and accuracy, maximizing the ws damage without incurring any penalty on his tp gain or dot. Again, maybe it's just me, but I would find it a lot more complicated if we couldn't freely switch gear as we can in FFXI and had to design a single gear set that balanced all stats for optimum damage.

That's not to say that gear swapping should be thrown out completely, but it seems like there should be more limits placed on it than we previously had.

Also if I totally misunderstood your point, whoops.

[Dein]

The macro bars in FFXI are a lot like the action bars seen in plenty of other games. The only two major differences were that you had to make the macros rather than drag a skill into a spot and that you had to hold down a button to access and use the macro bars. I can easily see them making it to where you can move through the action bar on a controller in XIV by using L2/R2 much like XI. I also doubt they'll get rid of the macro system since being able to assign several actions to a single spot is a big help.

[BRP]

It is impossible to learn on the internet?

Though even if we took that route, it still seems hard to claim that allowing gear set swaps mid-combat equates to a higher skill level, since there's no downside to gear swapping.

Gear as it is will not provide a great amount of depth, but imagine if FFXI didn't require gear swaps. Then you would only need to learn 1 set of gear instead of several.

[Ker]

complaining about an unfinished product? yup makes perfect sense -_-

[Chantal]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it seems hard to make this argument. Most competent players will simply look up what they need to know or do. It's not as though everyone is learning what stats are needed for a given spell or ability on their own and then concocting a gear set from scratch. How many people here have actually done that?

Though even if we took that route, it still seems hard to claim that allowing gear set swaps mid-combat equates to a higher skill level, since there's no downside to gear swapping. A melee going to a merit party can make a tp gear set focused entirely on things like store tp, haste, accuracy without really worrying about his WS modifiers. Similarly, his WS set can be focused entirely on his modifiers and accuracy, maximizing the ws damage without incurring any penalty on his tp gain or dot. Again, maybe it's just me, but I would find it a lot more complicated if we couldn't freely switch gear as we can in FFXI and had to design a single gear set that balanced all stats for optimum damage.

That's not to say that gear swapping should be thrown out completely, but it seems like there should be more limits placed on it than we previously had.

Also if I totally misunderstood your point, whoops.

But you also ignore the things that aren't just TP or WS. I can't tell you how many RDMs I've seen with great gear who do shit like full time moldavite earring. Also, what about defense sets? Then there is a downside, when you put on defense gear you lose out on your ability to do damage; not a great thing when you're a DD.

Tanking adds another aspect, which is keeping hate while minimizing damage taken. And what if you're a DD tank? SAMs, DRKs, and WARs have all been used to tank HNMs before.

As I have the most experience with RDM though, I can tell you this much: just knowing what gear goes where for whatever situation doesn't make you a good RDM. That's stuff anyone can look up. If you wanna do things, mostly solo or with a very low amount of people, that most RDMs can't do it requires a lot more than just knowing what gear goes in what set. There is a certain skill required, whether you're kiting or straight tanking, when dealing with a monster that can kill you in just a few hits. I know I'm better than most at it, but definitely far from being the best.

[Arelian]

Chantal, you're basing everything you know on FFXI - and for all we know FFXIV could be nothing like FFXI as far as combat goes. From what it sounds like, the combat IS entirely different and more skill based and much less focused on your DoT from auto-attacking.

So please, stop basing this entire game on FFXI. It doesn't make any sense.

[Cheerios]

complaining about an unfinished product? yup makes perfect sense -_-

People comment on unfinished games all the time. They also complain about popular MMO's they've never even played but have already been released, too.

[happydude]

FFXI UI was complete garbage, all the god damn menus, the status bars and the alliance/party setup... complete utter crap..

I love that square enix is finally coming to 2005 and allowing us to customize the UI just a bit..

I hope the game doesn't come down to having 50 items in your inventory for situational use... shit is situational is just a pain in the ass.. Only reason i hope that you would need different gear is to alter your class/skill playstyle from say a tank to straight up dd or whatever in that sense...

Alpha looks promising, can't wait for more information and definitely the upcoming beta.. if things in beta look like shit then talk Chantal..

[SephYuyX]

lol

tried FF11 Online and it was so childish and just horrible to play.
If u ever tried another mmorpg, how can u play this shit?

The new one looks like the same lame shit just with better graphics, wow great!

Don't get me wrong, i love Final Fantasy, but the online games just suck.

I played WoW for about 2 years and now I wait for AoC (i liked the Pc-version) or Champions Online (for console), and get Aion on Pc, thanks.

[Jimbobson]

But you also ignore the things that aren't just TP or WS. I can't tell you how many RDMs I've seen with great gear who do shit like full time moldavite earring. Also, what about defense sets? Then there is a downside, when you put on defense gear you lose out on your ability to do damage; not a great thing when you're a DD.

Tanking adds another aspect, which is keeping hate while minimizing damage taken. And what if you're a DD tank? SAMs, DRKs, and WARs have all been used to tank HNMs before.

As I have the most experience with RDM though, I can tell you this much: just knowing what gear goes where for whatever situation doesn't make you a good RDM. That's stuff anyone can look up. If you wanna do things, mostly solo or with a very low amount of people, that most RDMs can't do it requires a lot more than just knowing what gear goes in what set. There is a certain skill required, whether you're kiting or straight tanking, when dealing with a monster that can kill you in just a few hits. I know I'm better than most at it, but definitely far from being the best.

Actually, I'm not ignoring them, I was just keeping the example simple, but you can expand on it and keep the same point. Having random joe melee being able to insta-swap on a defense set if he's pulling more hate than his group again seems a lot less complicated and indicative of player/group skill than either having to keep his survivability in mind while he put together his gear set (and maybe having to adjust it between battles) or having the party manage its threat better. Additionally, it's not much of a downside to put on a defensive set if you're doing it because you're depleting your group's MP at too high of a rate or you're about to take a dirt nap, especially since you can throw your attack gear back on once the mob is off you with no penalty.

SAMs, DRKs, and WARs tanking is fine, but irrelevant. Are you somehow under the impression I said you should be restricted to one set of gear for everything you do in the game?

Edited for retarded word choice.

[Kurokikaze]

lol

lol wow who spewed that nonsense?

[Kingkai]

FFXI gear swaps are stupid. I'd much rather XIV get us to the point where I could have a neck item with +7 Enfeebling/Elemental/Dark/etc. on one slot instead of forcing me to carry 40 neck pieces. There's no skill or strategy to it. You just go for overall bigger numbers where you can. Woohoo, you're smart?

I may be wrong, but having one item for everything, is the opposite of strategy. Strategy involves setting yourself up for the task at hand and planning your attack/defense accordingly. If you aren't going to have complex gear then this is X-blades the MMO. The whole idea behind low level awesome gear was that they would be useful to people at any level but hard enough to get that you wouldn't see them on everyone. Why else would you live at Argus for 6 months for that gear? Get a high enough level or enough money and you have something that lasts you for YEARS and is versatile. Isn't that what everyone is asking for? Get something that is universally usefull?

The strategy of taking a character and making a taru SAM pull 2500+ penta while watching some elvaan DRG pull 1300 BECAUSE you understand the game, is what makes it fun. Throwing a bunch of nub shit at your toon and getting the same numbers as everyone else is what makes a game suck. Who cares about your toon's eyecolor when everyone in the game does the same damage, heals for the same amount, enfeebles land at the same rate, and all things you do instantly work. What set's you apart from the other person, the way you customize your gear setup for the situation.

If SE wants to fix the main issue behind gear swaps, the answer is not making them obsolete, make it so everyone can. We didn't have them in XI because you couldn't do it on a PS2(Their reason). While others hacked binding keys to make it work the same as WoW, or added script macro's to change all their gear for a WS them pop it all back for TP gain. THOSE people are the ones I chose to merit with, the catch all people killed chains and made the game slow, the all out people made chain 200+ with ease.

I like gear swaps, I like complex gear choices. From the sounds of what SE is getting at, gear changing is what changes your job now, not your Moogle. Making going from one mission to another much easier. Crafting? Change ONE piece of gear, kill fafnir, change another, level in the dunes, change yet again and fish. Not enough X to kill Y? Hold on let me pull out my other weapon and be that job, no more going from sky to MH back to sky just because you need another WHM.

So keep the weapon based job changes, I like that, keep your armor complex, it is what separates the nubs from the pro's and by making XI or any other MMO so easy a 12 y.o. can play it, you kill the interest for the 25-50 range.

Personally, I think the older and more dedicated the demographic ends up being, the more solid the game will be. The whiners complaining about balance caused SE to nerf jobs for 4 years before learning we actually meant for them to buff the jobs they broke with the first TP nerf. After all, would missing a hit or two on guillo matter near as much if you got the number of WS's you did pre MNK relic nerf?

SE boning that nerf instead of making un upgraded relic knuckles +1 delay, made for a long process of jacked nerfs that ended with the game being WAY too easy. (Aside from select endeavors).


All just my couple pennies worth, but what do I know

[Baelorn]

There are no words for how much I hate people calling Characters "toons".

[Kurokikaze]

Personally, I think the older and more dedicated the demographic ends up being, the more solid the game will be. The whiners complaining about balance caused SE to nerf jobs for 4 years before learning we actually meant for them to buff the jobs they broke with the first TP nerf. After all, would missing a hit or two on guillo matter near as much if you got the number of WS's you did pre MNK relic nerf?

Dude I cannot even come to imagine the insanity that would be unnerfed TP in a meleeburn... Back when they nerfed TP I was like 60DRG/30SAM and loving every minute of that Penta Thrust spam. Imagine that today with Haste/WS builds. overfuckingpowered.

[Jimbobson]

Gear as it is will not provide a great amount of depth, but imagine if FFXI didn't require gear swaps. Then you would only need to learn 1 set of gear instead of several.

I guess it's the 'learning gearsets' part that gets me. You have to learn what stats will maximize the effect of a given spell/ability/activity regardless of gear swapping.

Unlimited gear swapping allows you to tunnel vision on the few that affect each spell, because you know it won't matter when you cast the next. A limit on swapping would force you to take more factors in account when you're planning out your gear.