Final Fantasy XIV @ gamescom 2009 (Updated)

[Kingkai]

Having random joe melee being able to insta-swap on a defense set if he's pulling more hate than his group again seems a lot less complicated and indicative of player/group skill than either having to keep his survivability in mind while he put together his gear set (and maybe having to adjust it between battles) or having the party manage its threat better.

In either case, the skilled player thinks ahead, random joe isn't thinking about survivability, having seen nub LS's after seeing the HNM side, I can say that the nubs don't get it at all. I saw a person in merit die and blame everyone else for his having full hate after as DRG, pulling all his JA at once /WAR rather than timing it for the end of the battle.

Stupidity is stupidity, changing the game dynamics wont get rid of stupid people or make the skilled more skilled. People that get the idea of HOW to play will no matter what game rules are, while stupid people will always attempt to copy the smart without understanding why they do it.

Being able to mitigate damage with a good DEF setup is not the same as knowing WHEN to use it. Doing quests and mission to make it so your bag is big enough that you CAN be that guy, is part of what sets the dedicated player apart from the nub.

[Alderaan]

There are no words for how much I hate people calling Characters "toons".

Amen brother.

[Agito]

There are no words for how much I hate people calling Characters "toons".

Toon is like the gayest thing to have ever graced a mmorpg community. I could understand it in WoW because they actually are cartoons!
Looney-toon and Cartoon is where it comes from though.

[Kingkai]

Dude I cannot even come to imagine the insanity that would be unnerfed TP in a meleeburn... Back when they nerfed TP I was like 60DRG/30SAM and loving every minute of that Penta Thrust spam. Imagine that today with Haste/WS builds. overfuckingpowered.

Wouldn't have needed haste build if not for the TP nerfs.

Whole dynamic and path of the game changed with that one pivotal decision.


As for calling them "toons", I don't like the word banana, doesn't change everyone calling it a banana. Just look at it, the work is far too stuck up, ba-na-na, like someone was lazy that day. HORRID I tell you. XD

[Chantal]

Chantal, you're basing everything you know on FFXI - and for all we know FFXIV could be nothing like FFXI as far as combat goes. From what it sounds like, the combat IS entirely different and more skill based and much less focused on your DoT from auto-attacking.

So please, stop basing this entire game on FFXI. It doesn't make any sense.

Of course I'm basing everything about XIV on XI. That's just common sense last I checked, lol <.< what would you compare, say, Street Fighter IV to? Hopefully the earlier SFs. Or if you like FPSs, what about CoD5 (or 4 or w/e the newest one is)? You'd compare it to those that came before it, as well as games that came out around the same time or were particularly good. As I don't really know much about MMOs other than XI, as I said before, XI's the obvious one to compare to for me. Also since I'm basically deciding between giving up XI for XIV or ignoring XIV and staying with XI, it's even more important for me to make the comparison.

@Jimbobson: I dunno, it seems a lot more complex having to max out every situation than just having to max out one. But let's just say you took XI and made it so you couldn't put gear swaps in macros; not only would that make things a LOT more frustrating, but a lot of stuff (that I find very fun, I might add) wouldn't be possible. That'd pretty much shoot down the idea of RDM soloing, or using DDs to tank, or elemental resistance sets... etc etc. And it wouldn't take very long to max out your gear either, only having to worry about one set, with a few swaps for higher acc, or higher attack, or better WS mods, or w/e, depending on your job/situation.

[Agito]

Any idea as to when an interview or Q&A or something of that nature will begin?

[Jimbobson]

In either case, the skilled player thinks ahead, random joe isn't thinking about survivability, having seen nub LS's after seeing the HNM side, I can say that the nubs don't get it at all. I saw a person in merit die and blame everyone else for his having full hate after as DRG, pulling all his JA at once /WAR rather than timing it for the end of the battle.

Stupidity is stupidity, changing the game dynamics wont get rid of stupid people or make the skilled more skilled. People that get the idea of HOW to play will no matter what game rules are, while stupid people will always attempt to copy the smart without understanding why they do it.

Being able to mitigate damage with a good DEF setup is not the same as knowing WHEN to use it. Doing quests and mission to make it so your bag is big enough that you CAN be that guy, is part of what sets the dedicated player apart from the nub.

Random joe wasn't supposed to imply that he was a clueless player, just that it was a random melee player we were using as an example. None of my posts were remotely related to making an unskilled player skilled. It's more about putting the same knowledgable player into two different situations and seeing which would require more planning or consideration.

[Kingkai]

Only soo many ways you can make an RPG work, stats are always the same basic math with different names to the stats. So comparing it to FFXI would be no different than comparing it to WoW, except that the dev's compare it to FFXI to give us a reference point. We all know FFXI, using that as a reference seems the smartest imo

[Chantal]

Alpha looks promising, can't wait for more information and definitely the upcoming beta.. if things in beta look like shit then talk Chantal..

When did I become the poster child for FFXIV hate? I think the game looks great I just don't like the UI, lolz

Also, another thing @Jimbobson: I like maxing out my character in every situation. I like being the absolute best I can be and still having a challenge. I don't like feeling limited, which is exactly how I'd feel if I could only use one gear set <.<

[Kingkai]

Random joe wasn't supposed to imply that he was a clueless player, just that it was a random melee player we were using as an example. None of my posts were remotely related to making an unskilled player skilled. It's more about putting the same knowledgable player into two different situations and seeing which would require more planning or consideration.

Yeah I can see your point.

If joe shmo had to worry about hate more then being able to swap the damage away he would have to be more skilled than the speed boot having mofo.

Tho, for any workaround, SE doesn't seem to mind making a mob that can pwn it. So strategy there also, holding back to let the person who wants hate have it is easy, I think it takes more skill to do as much damage as you can while figuring out how not to get pwned by SE's latest PWNAGE idea.

If the key to every HNM was holding back rather than say fire- gear for tiamat, ice- for jorm, etc etc etc, I think it would take less thought than it does in XI. But that is just how I see it, your point is also valid.

[Jimbobson]

@Jimbobson: I dunno, it seems a lot more complex having to max out every situation than just having to max out one. But let's just say you took XI and made it so you couldn't put gear swaps in macros; not only would that make things a LOT more frustrating, but a lot of stuff (that I find very fun, I might add) wouldn't be possible. That'd pretty much shoot down the idea of RDM soloing, or using DDs to tank, or elemental resistance sets... etc etc. And it wouldn't take very long to max out your gear either, only having to worry about one set, with a few swaps for higher acc, or higher attack, or better WS mods, or w/e, depending on your job/situation.

I think your first sentence hit it on the head as to where our difference in opinion originates.
Either way, you're trying to maximize your overall damage while keeping yourself alive.
But to me, gear swapping is more similar to 'maximizing the one' becuase you can make your gear sets focused on only one thing at a time (tp gain, WS, survivability, etc).
Designing a single set that has to consider both tp gain and ws damage and still gives you the maximum dps possible, while retaining enough damage/enmity mitigation strikes me as more complicated, but to each his own.

I definitely agree with you that they couldn't simply strip FFXI of equipment swapping though, as the game was entirely built around it. FFXIV is a blank slate though, so I guess we'll just have to see which path they take.

[Chantal]

I think your first sentence hit it on the head as to where our difference in opinion originates.
Either way, you're trying to maximize your overall damage while keeping yourself alive.
But to me, gear swapping is more similar to 'maximizing the one' becuase you can make your gear sets focused on only one thing at a time (tp gain, WS, survivability, etc).
Designing a single set that has to consider both tp gain and ws damage and still gives you the maximum dps possible, while retaining enough damage/enmity mitigation strikes me as more complicated, but to each his own.

I definitely agree with you that they couldn't simply strip FFXI of equipment swapping though, as the game was entirely built around it. FFXIV is a blank slate though, so I guess we'll just have to see which path they take.

I think I see what you mean a bit better now. Yeah, I do think that would be more complex set-for-set; but having to keep everything in mind for each set, and knowing when to use what, takes a lot more knowledge and skill in my opinion. I could see someone arguing that worrying about gear takes away from gameplay, though... but who knows. Until they give me an MMO with fighting-game mechanics, gear swaps ftw for me <.<

[Jyoshi]

Until they give me an MMO with fighting-game mechanics, gear swaps ftw for me <.<

i think i heard that blades and soul is gonna be a fighting game mmo with no UI, just hit points. i dunno, my friedn worked for nc soft and thats what he was telling me

[arus2001]

The "strategy" should be in how you get the not-sucky-for-everything-but-one-purpose-gear, not so much micromanaging the points in which you use it. Granted, I'm not one with the drive to be "the best" because I have a point of no return when it comes to situational shit and how you go about getting it. My RDM's leveled, too. I have over 10 different sets for various activities. I know my LS leaders like to pick me for the job (even though it's mundane and sometimes annoying if the party I get stuck in is built terribly) because I know what I'm doing and can actually cast Refresh regularly and maintain a keen environmental awareness of foes and party members alike. I don't use spellcast, but I still have a ton of txts for my spells and sets.

I'm sick of it. I'm sick of juggling 70+ items back and forth in my safe/satchel/locker only to find maybe I forgot something because a lag click didn't swap it over to my inventory. I'm sick of editing all those files the moment I maybe get something that could actually improve stuff. I'll take a kickass R/E JSE set over a myriad of hohum pieces many jobs could possibly use every now and then when the moon's right and your HP's yellow.

FFXI gear swapping is SE creating a time sink the optimizers eat right up and the niche lengths some go to is, for the lack of a better word, sad. I'm not saying you guys can't have these "roles" the situational gear is used for. I'm just saying I want it all on one strongly designed piece per slot instead of many creating the graphical nightmare that is blinking. And while the Armory system is still vague, I'd prefer however it goes about setting your abilities and such determines your success far more than having +30 more STR on your WS build than TP because you had the time to camp that world spawn for 6 months that bumped you up from +25 from other more common gear choices.

Yeah, yeah, I'm probably in the wrong place to be talking about this, but if you think about it, XI's crappy loot/equipment/macro system has led to a lot of indirect PvP. The "big numbers" crack was more or less an application of common sense. More ACC? Well yeah, expect to hit more often if you're not capped. More ATK? Hey, I hit harder! Who knowingly focuses on equipping negative stats outside of maybe niche defensive skill skilling or the stupid ceremonial dagger exploit? There's no "taking away" with the swapping "strategy" unless you're just talking about your inventory space. If your goal is "more" then why does it matter if it's on one piece instead of ten?

[Kurokikaze]

IGN: Final Fantasy XIV Online Trailer, Videos and Movies

Found this link on GAF. IGN has some pretty smooth off camera shots of the game.

[Agito]

I love the way the Lalafell run, waddle-waddle!
Now only if they could trip on a rock while doing the waddle.

[Null]

Fuck those look beautiful.

[Kurokikaze]

Haha. This is what I thought of when I saw the Lalafell sidestepping and running around:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/dr...-Yajirobe2.jpg

[Dareus]

I really like the way the UI is set up. It looks very neat and clear, I just hope you can set up the bar at the bottom with macros like in FFXI.

[xopher]

Did anyone ever say if FFXIV was based around auto attack or no?