Final Fantasy XIV @ gamescom 2009 (Updated)

[ringthree]

How many times has SE done something where they are like "There won't be X in <some situation>" and then instead they do "Y", which is basically the exact same thing as "X" with a different name.

There will be leveling, and grinding, they just aren't calling it that. If you're "skilling your weapon" instead of "leveling your character" but the net effect is the same, what difference does it make what it's called?

It is kind of sad that you had to explain this, but you are completely correct.

[McGoonagle]

I'm very skeptical of that, especially in light of them having said we'll be getting macros. What we know is that we'll be getting 10 "hotkey" like slots. These could be abilities that we can change out in the field, in which case it can scarcely be considered customization.

I don't see the logic of saying that being able to change abilities in the field is not equivalent to customization. In fact, that could be seen as making characters extremely flexible and customizable. Bear in mind that we do not know what these abilities are, nor do we know what can be macroed. I do not believe that these are necessarily going to be things like sneak attack vs. trick attack, but instead an ability saying "thief special attacks" that will then allow you to select special attacks depending upon your skill level.

Your guessing at gear contributing to job when there's been no indication can hardly be factored in to the question at this point. Thus far all we know with any level of reliability is that your weapon is your job.

It was just a guess. But, if there were no gear progression and contribution, it would be a major deficiency in the game. Imagine going 1-75 and not being able to wear anything except vagabond gear and not being able to differentiate a capped out player from someone who just lost their red question mark.

Also, your attempt to turn this into an accurate mathematical equation strikes me as fruitless.

That was in no way an accurate mathematical equation. It was just one of many ways of representing the point of view that the weapon alone does not fully define the character. Weapons choice will define the character the way the length of one side contributes to the area of a polygon.

[Jaybar]

YOUR SPECULATION IS DUMB, MINE IS SUPERIOR. Shut up ;p

And yes, I think you're dead wrong. I don't think there will be any 'universal' progression for HP/MP(aka character levels, there are none), otherwise it completely defeats the purpose of armory. Your progression will be 100% tied to your weapon, though whether it will be based off straight weapon proficiency or something else is yet to be determined.

I really dont see how you could think that changing your weapons wouldn't change these stats significantly. What are you going to do, switch to a weapon youve never used before and go whack 'level one' enemies with 1000 more HP than them? Or go whack on enemies your own 'level' (in terms of hp) and widdle them down with whiffs/0-1 hits until you have to run away? It's a ridiculous thought.

So you think everyone is going to have one basic stat for everything in their class? Since there is no level ups then the only way to gain stats is to increase your skills in the class? So, if you are in the Disciple of Warrior class and switch to a lower skill ranked weapon, then every stat you've worked so hard on building would be depleted? You don't see the problem with this? Let me know if I should elaborate because I'm not going to make this a wall of text.

Switching to a different class I will agree would change your character more if it's never been used since you haven't built up any skills for it.

I hate doing trees, but think of it this way:

You can progress with your class with permanent skills and progressive skills. Permanent skills affect the entire spectrum of your class (say, HP). I think you can agree that switching from a Katana to a Sword shouldn't make you lose HP (unless weapons have HP on them). The switching of weapons would change your progressive skills (like Red Lotus Blade). This is the way I see the game being played out, with the Armoury System having some adjustments in there as well (like not being able to equip certain armor with certain weapons until you fulfill certain progressive skill).

[McGoonagle]

We seem to have major questions about a small number of major topics, and a major lack of real information. Here's a few questions we need answers to.


HP and MP progression

1. Do they increase?
2. If yes, do they increase with developing skill?
3. If no, why am I bothering?
4. Are they affected if you change from your high skill job to a low skill job?
5. Are they affected if you change from a higher skill weapon to a lower skill weapon? (Without changing job?)

Skill and ability progression

1. What's a skill and what's an ability?
2. What goes in the ability slots?
3. Can you only learn so much from a given weapon?
4. Does weapons selection, without changing job, affect HP or MP?
5. Does changing weapons selection affect use of the skills you have learned?

Equipment and buffs

1. Does equipment play a role in any of these progressions?

[Katlan]

It'll probably like wow where gear has item levels, and the types.. cloth, plate have different values /spells/skills/stats/etc something they give you when you wear it.

Wow is the only mmo to use "item lv" figures for calculating gear/weapons/ect... And I think it would be a serious step in the wrong direction for FFXIV to employ a similar progression system like WoW. One of the great things of FFXI was camping a rare / low lv NM for an item that was great for lv75. Assuming FFXIV to be a natural progression from XI (w/they have stated it is), I think gear will be determined in a similar fashion

[Hyan]

One of the great things of FFXI was camping a rare / low lv NM for an item that was great for lv75.

This is what made FFXI suck as much as it did, really. They better figure out something better for XIV..

[Lothiden]

This is what made FFXI suck as much as it did, really. They better figure out something better for XIV..

I agree. Signing on for a rare spawn once every 2hrs was not all that enjoyable.

However, i did get through alot of the anime i had back-logged that i needed to watch...

[Destinye]

This is what made FFXI suck as much as it did, really. They better figure out something better for XIV..

Aka go against what's an MMO staple and just hand the gear out? That's the only way they can get around what just about every MMO does.

[Hyan]

Aka go against what's an MMO staple and just hand the gear out? That's the only way they can get around what just about every MMO does.

Why can't the gear progression be vertical up to the level cap? I don't see much harm coming from this, balance wise it'd be a smart decision imo.

[Ryuushin]

These are valid points to bring up in an interview and I hope they get asked at TGS ><

Interviews were good at gamescom but I wish there were more in-depth questions.

[Hyan]

Hmm, new(?) info from this week's Dengeki, translated by FFXIVCore:

It's possible to progress in the game this time without battling!

We were able to interview Producer Tanaka Hiromichi and Global Online Producer Sage Sundi.

Dengeki: How many Guildleves are there this time?

Tanaka: There are a lot. The rewards are not limited to just money or items, it can also be something like "Sword skill level up leve".

Dengeki: Say, for tailors, are there leves set up for them to craft?

Tanaka: Yes, in those leves, there aren't any fighting so tailors can level up their crafting skills like smithing and tailoring.

Sage: This time around, because of the Guildleves, players can focus on crafting to level skills up. They can progress in the game this way.

Tanaka: It's possible to reach the highest level without even having to fight once! This is one of the concept for this game.

Sage: However to reach the deepest dungeons, it might be needed to enlist the help of fighting classes.

Tanaka: Since the weapons have durability this time around, you can't keep on fighting with the same weapon over and over. Crafting becomes an essential element of the game. The fighting class will either be asking help from crafters or level up a crafting skill on their own!

Has a sandbox feel to it.. maybe a mix of the two.

[Katlan]

These are valid points to bring up in an interview and I hope they get asked at TGS ><

Interviews were good at gamescom but I wish there were more in-depth questions.

Don't forget they will respond to each of these type of questions w/ a "we can't answer that at this time" answer. Most ppl / companies who had a chance to ask FFXIV questions knew this and that's why nothing so detailed was asked because it would just waste valuable interview time.

Yes, they are all good questions, but the closest you will hear them say is that they intend to cater to the hardcore (camper crowd) and the casual folks. Asking them about character / gear / weapons scaling and how value's will be determined will get you nowhere. Keep in mind this is from the company that brought you FFXI, not WoW or WAR or AoC or any other mmo where values are spelled out for the players. It is safe to assume there will be a lot of mystery surrounding all this stuff and they will want the players to discover / hypothesis it vs it being spoon fed to the population.

[Lothiden]

Hmm, new(?) info from this week's Dengeki, translated by FFXIVCore:



Has a sandbox feel to it.. maybe a mix of the two.

So there won't be awesome weapons to strive towards i'm guessing?

If they are just going to break anyway. And they way they talk about "Durability" almost seems like the weapons can't be repaired. We just have to get a new one... So weapons become more of a "Consumable" like ammo, rather than a more important focal point in your gear set up. Sure the weapon will determine what ablilities you use, but you better bring your back up weapon incase this one breaks durring a dungeon run...

Not to sure i'm entirely excited about this aspect. Sure it will negate all the "Riddles" in the world, but i still enjoyed using my Gluttony Sword on my PLD for as long as i did. Effort in = the reward. I guess my concern would be how much of a pain in the ass is it going to be to craft these weapons, if they are only to be thrown in the trash after using them a few times...

[Null]

Hmmm? From the way I read it I thought the craft skill could fix it.

[Hyan]

Ya... might work like how fixing fishing rods works in XI. Doesn't sound too bad I guess.

[Ryuushin]

So.. this line kinda confirms a part of my question:

"Different armor will have different skill requirements. Each weapon has corresponding gear paths. There is general purpose gear and skill purposed gear, example is fencers for increased speed of sword skill leveling."

Oops, here's the link:

http://www.ffxivcore.com/index.php?/...aka-and-sundi/

[Takiwaki]

Beaten to the post but yea some little new tidbits in there

I like this

"Variation among armor progress more drastically than FFXI!"

[Lothiden]

Oh Snap!!!

Guildleve HNMs and NMs?!??!!

which means, they will all be instanced. No more camping / competing with other people for claims.

That is some awesome news right there!

[Celeras]

Theyve never said that the guildleve areas are instanced yet. Closest theyve come is saying that 'there won't be any overlap between players killing monsters for guild leves since they are all instanced for the guild leve recipients.' And this corresponds with what they said at gamecom, where they stated guild leves are 'like instances'.

Theres a million different ways to get the enemies to be on a per-player/party basis and still have it be in the open world. If you don't want the competition between players, then I'd be hoping for that.

Entirely instanced end-game content sucks. May as well be playing a single player lobby game because nobody is going to see eachother outside of a town.

[Null]

Exactly, I'd like for their to be some competition. I know most of the FFXI fanbase hated camping, guess I was an oddball out cause I always got what I wanted.