NIN/RDM vs NIN/DRK

[ringthree]

Except that, outside of Sentinel, a Ninja and a Paladin should be getting hit for nearly identical damage. Technically speaking, the hit-for-hit damage will favor Ninja, while shield blocks will even out the total damage taken.

I have no hard numbers but my experience tanking with and healing for both NIN and PLD. My conclusion is that PLD takes less damage, it is less spiky and it is less consistent (meaning a PLD will get hit once and then get shadows up, a NIN if they get interrupted at a bad point can take several hits before getting shadows back up).

The Byakko example is a good one here. Byakko can wipe out a NIN in the blink of an eye, but it is less likely to do so to a PLD. Even with all my DMG down gear on I still generally take more physical damage than a PLD over time. And this is before you even consider magic damage.

[Saxon]

I have been considering something like this build and Dorado Sushi to try to increase my damage compared to a PLD, but I really can't say it is worth it at this point.

Unless you're going to blink to real DD gear, I wouldn't bother.

[richardd]

hmm.. do i need to fill in here? lol

looks like everybody covered it. glad to see amas still carrying the nin tanking flag. me and that guy go back for years!

and thanks for the reference guys! some guy on msn told me to come check this page out lol

just to point out. i learned everything (gearsets and all) from ruke's old old old old LJ. he was one of the few ppl in this game who was way ahead of his time, and even if the time he posted this is irrelevant, pre-usu days etc. it still holds pretty strong today and i used it to help me further myself.
rukenshin: Ninjer/Windower Guides

as for /rdm, i learned all that from mojo and a guy who posted a lot of nin stuff named hakamaru. im not really a groundbreaking player or anything, i just did my best with it and proved that nin cant only hold as good as hate as atonement spamming 2-relic pld's but can take just as good dmg! i hope all goes well with people trying it.

[ringthree]

Unless you're going to blink to real DD gear, I wouldn't bother.

Yeah, I figured, but I have just had my mind on testing somethings out lately. I know they won't work, but it's not going to hurt anyone (but me LOL).

[stewie]

hmm.. do i need to fill in here? lol

looks like everybody covered it. glad to see amas still carrying the nin tanking flag. me and that guy go back for years!

and thanks for the reference guys! some guy on msn told me to come check this page out lol

just to point out. i learned everything (gearsets and all) from ruke's old old old old LJ. he was one of the few ppl in this game who was way ahead of his time, and even if the time he posted this is irrelevant, pre-usu days etc. it still holds pretty strong today and i used it to help me further myself.
rukenshin: Ninjer/Windower Guides

as for /rdm, i learned all that from mojo and a guy who posted a lot of nin stuff named hakamaru. im not really a groundbreaking player or anything, i just did my best with it and proved that nin cant only hold as good as hate as atonement spamming 2-relic pld's but can take just as good dmg! i hope all goes well with people trying it.

Where's the parse of you and the excal/aegis PLD on Odin?

[Devdas]

The only time I have had Byakko wipe me out is daiga -> triple attack -> Claw Cyclone cause my stun and weapon bash timers were down and a black mage was being lazy. Normally its Diaga -> stun/weapon bash right as it says he is casting that spell. Also hope your WHM is smart and erases you asap.

Edit: The triple attack was before I had changed to my PDT- gear and was in enmity gear so that's why Claw Cyclone managed to kill me.

[richardd]

The Byakko example is a good one here. Byakko can wipe out a NIN in the blink of an eye, but it is less likely to do so to a PLD.

huh? since when? lol

what were your buffs/gearsets? he hits me for 60-100. and his razor fangs and the claw cyclone NEVER do more than 300-400. hes a mob you need a least 1300 HP on, but i was tanking it with 1700 and never fell that low even after 2 TA's and a CC. this was with 6 manning it.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Ringthree:

Your observations, like most people's who aren't specifically looking for it to be the case, are biased. Ninja has access to much, much better PDT equipment than Paladin, shield blocks just happen to even out the damage in the long run. If the latter were absent, it wouldn't even be debatable.

[richardd]

Where's the parse of you and the excal/aegis PLD on Odin?

back with the other thread of me and neo debating lol

ill find it later, im too lazy mannnnn

[stewie]

back with the other thread of me and neo debating lol

ill find it later, im too lazy mannnnn

Oh I found it~ http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/73597...ml#post2682760

[ringthree]

huh? since when? lol

what were your buffs/gearsets? he hits me for 60-100. and his razor fangs and the claw cyclone NEVER do more than 300-400. hes a mob you need a least 1300 HP on, but i was tanking it with 1700 and never fell that low even after 2 TA's and a CC. this was with 6 manning it.

Are you saying that Byakko never wipes out NINs? Or are you saying that Byakko never wipes you out? The latter is much more likely than the former.

My point was not that you can't survive on Byakko, it was just that a generic PLD can take one of those bad situation Claw Cyclones better than a generic NIN.

Richardd on NIN can deal with a lot of things better than a whole lot of PLD, but if we were all Richardd on NIN then we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

[richardd]

Ringthree:

Your observations, like most people's who aren't specifically looking for it to be the case, are biased. Ninja has access to much, much better PDT equipment than Paladin, shield blocks just happen to even out the damage in the long run. If the latter were absent, it wouldn't even be debatable.

im making you a sig, punk ass


and yeah i agree. i think it was just a clusterfuck moment. i tanked byakko so much, that i know what to expect half the time. the attack animations aren't fast at all. the moment he TA's, you can let off a Ni or even an ichi in the middle of his animation before he gets a chance to TA again. just have to have good reaction. i cant imagine anyone dying to byakko in less than 5 sec these days anymore at the fault of the tank. ANY tank can die to byakko in 1 sec if their support is absolute ass. even aegis's.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Generic doesn't matter in regard to this conversation. Generic players don't still try to tank with Ninja.

[richardd]

Are you saying that Byakko never wipes out NINs? Or are you saying that Byakko never wipes you out? The latter is much more likely than the former.

My point was not that you can't survive on Byakko, it was just that a generic PLD can take one of those bad situation Claw Cyclones better than a generic NIN.

Richardd on NIN can deal with a lot of things better than a whole lot of PLD, but if we were all Richardd on NIN then we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

meh, im no better than anyone. im sure if i can do it, they all can too lol. dont need any shadow items or minerva rings really ;

[stewie]

The last Byakko I did I was getting hit for 130ish in PDT gear, no Phalanx 2/Protectra V though.

[Tsuko_Asura]

im making you a sig, punk ass

Don't tease me

[richardd]

The last Byakko I did I was getting hit for 130ish in PDT gear, no Phalanx 2/Protectra V though.

man that pic of me tanking khim as sam sucks. 197 is too high lol ;; why did i post that?!

i dont think plds take that much dmg unblocked on Khim lol

[Kipling]

Byakko killed me not too long ago on PLD rich with a Diaga>triple attack>razor claw right after I had casted Ni and sentinel wasn't up. My shield didn't block at all during ichi and I was sad

[ringthree]

Ringthree:

Your observations, like most people's who aren't specifically looking for it to be the case, are biased. Ninja has access to much, much better PDT equipment than Paladin, shield blocks just happen to even out the damage in the long run. If the latter were absent, it wouldn't even be debatable.

Oh? What exactly am I looking for? I am taking my observations as NIN/DRK tanking with my friend, a PLD/NIN for the most part, and for healing our PLD/NIN and our NIN/DRK. I have never really felt that I take hits as well as my friend, and I have found it much easier to heal (less spiky damage, less chained damage, fewer oh shit moments) for a PLD than a NIN.

That is about as biased as anyone here is going to be, because they are going to be basing it on personal experience. There is nothing that I am desirous about that is driving my one way or another. If NIN was an equal tank to PLD under all conditions then people wouldn't use PLD consistently over NIN. The fact that there are good NIN tanks does not disprove this point at all.

And this all considers physical damage only. A PLD is much better itemized to deal with magic damage in general.

[richardd]

Byakko killed me not too long ago on PLD rich with a Diaga>triple attack>razor claw right after I had casted Ni and sentinel wasn't up. My shield didn't block at all during ichi and I was sad

i take it back, than ;;

sometimes bad luck sucks its all good. it just proves tsuko's point more. the damage taken always evens out between rdm/nin/pld's. no one ever shield blocks 100% of the time ;

but your a sexy taru so.. it all evens out

so you dont take on rdm anymore huh? i remember you were pretty good