Darwin's 150-year-old theory vindicated...by jellyfish

[Tristam]

I find this really interesting to consider with relation to the algae blooms and the movement of food through deep water to shallow. It definitely has some implications about the evolution of the creatures and where they typically spend their time in the water table.

^ This, I just flipped through the paper and they amusingly pointed out that their calculations could be an underestimate due to the effects of falling fish poop. (well, they used the technical term faecal pellets).

[Mizango]

Algae blooms basically shit Oxygen and cock goggle Carbons. There are lots of things that have an effect on out climate, its not all about Cars and the Sun etc...

We actually live in a pretty fragile place.

[Bugpop]

Everything else for the most part makes since to me, until I get to the bold. How would this maintain the Earth's climate?

The article doesn't really seem to elaborate this point. Sounds important enough, but I really have no idea how that would work.

I can see it the other way around though -- that is, Earth gets warmer, waters get warmer, but yeah I'm sure I'm missing something here.

I have recently read a number of articles in science journals about bacteria in the clouds. Articles that included discussions of extremophiles and other forms of life that thrive in unusual places and may even depend on their environment to live. For instance bacteria that live in clouds may have an active role in precipitation. What effect does their presence or lack of presence have on our atmosphere? If they have a substantial role in producing precipitation then if they are somehow threatened by global warming or pollutants, how would that affect precipitation?


Cloud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bacteria in clouds
Bacteria that live in clouds may have evolved the ability to promote rainstorms as a way to disperse themselves. These microbes—called ice nucleators—are found in rain, snow, and hail throughout the world, according to Brent Christner, a microbiologist at Louisiana State University. These bacteria may be part of a constant feedback between terrestrial ecosystems and clouds. They may rely on the rainfall to spread to new habitats, much as plants rely on windblown pollen grains, Christner said.

[Khamsin]

On the order of tides and winds in that it'd take something just as long to float somewhere in a lifeless ocean with tides/winds as it would in a tideless ocean with life/winds and in a windless ocean with life/tides?

Assuming the tides/winds/life was pushing it in the same general directions.

[Bugpop]

Algae blooms basically shit Oxygen and cock goggle Carbons. There are lots of things that have an effect on out climate, its not all about Cars and the Sun etc...

We actually live in a pretty fragile place.

It seems to me that the term "fragile" in this concept is based on the point of view of a human observer. Looking at geologic time, we see that life has endured through mass extinctions and vastly different climates. We see that life manages to endure somehow.

I doubt that life would be substantially threatened in the long run by any amout of global warming or pollution. What kind of life we live in may drastically change and be totally foreign. Can you imagine surviving the wake of a mass extinction?

[zoobernut]

All of our attempts to "save" the planet are just attempts to save the human race. The system that is the climate is self correcting for the most part, barring massive disaster.

[Tristam]

On the order of tides and winds in that it'd take something just as long to float somewhere in a lifeless ocean with tides/winds as it would in a tideless ocean with life/winds and in a windless ocean with life/tides?

Assuming the tides/winds/life was pushing it in the same general directions.

kind of, if you had a group of animals traveling up/down and you were something with the same viscosity and density as the surrounding solution, I think you would travel at a rate that would be similar, but that's a question for the physics guys.

irl. it would also depend on how close you were to the center of the group of animals, the shape of the animals, and whether there were any nearby groups of animals traveling in different directions.

[Norellicus]

Interesting.

The part I'm not seeing followed through with here is how evidence showing significant water displacement in a vertical fashion from jellyfish translates to equator<->poles mixing properly; you still get the "climate control" just by bringing cold water to the surface, sure, but that doesn't account for the cross-ocean nutrients.

Unless I'm misreading some part of it, which is entirely possible

Also, theory belongs to Darwin the younger, which makes it 50 years old, not 150

[Bugpop]

Interesting.

The part I'm not seeing followed through with here is how evidence showing significant water displacement in a vertical fashion from jellyfish translates to equator<->poles mixing properly; you still get the "climate control" just by bringing cold water to the surface, sure, but that doesn't account for the cross-ocean nutrients.

Unless I'm misreading some part of it, which is entirely possible

Also, theory belongs to Darwin the younger, which makes it 50 years old, not 150

I don't know what "significant" means when one consider the vastness of the ocean and I doubt a news article would be sufficiently able to convey any sort of proof whatsoever. We'll just have to read the report.

[Penthesilea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http:...atch?v=poAQljx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poAQl...layer_embedded

guess check the link, cause it won't embed

Edit, also because I can't find the article (not looking hard enough), but it's pretty basic and simple regarding fluid dynamics. Water and air are pulled along with a body as it passes through a fluid (air or water) because along the body you're creating a high pressure as you travel through the fluid. In your wake is a low pressure zone. This is how you get those turbulent flows that allow fish to conserve energy in schools and birds in flocks. It's just a matter of the vortices created by the fins/wings. I'd like to see how they're going to show that it could affect that large of a body of water to the extent they're proposing.

[Mizango]

It seems to me that the term "fragile" in this concept is based on the point of view of a human observer. Looking at geologic time, we see that life has endured through mass extinctions and vastly different climates. We see that life manages to endure somehow.

That is what I meant, I just didnt feel like rehashing my thought that I posted in the LHC/astrophysics thread.

As humans we are the epitome of fragile, not the planet we live on per se.

[Stiker]

Thanks for the answers about the climate. This is completely out of my area of any kind of expertise!

[Mizango]

Thanks for the answers about the climate. This is completely out of my area of any kind of expertise!

Oh I can go on for days! Between this and the what is not the Particle Physics thread my fingers are getting quite the work out lol.

PM me if you have direct questions, I can literally go on for days about this. If you guys get a chance read "You inner fish" by Neil Shubin, it is a great great read and I had the honor of meeting him 2 weeks ago when I flew to Chicago.

I have since corresponded with him via email. He is a leading Paleontologist and evolutionists in the World and is responsible for the discovery of the Tiktaalik. A revolutionary missing link that bridges the gap between water and land.




Edit: Added for people scratching their heads lol Tiktaalik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dimmauk]

Oh I can go on for days! Between this and the what is not the Particle Physics thread my fingers are getting quite the work out lol.

PM me if you have direct questions, I can literally go on for days about this. If you guys get a chance read "You inner fish" by Neil Shubin, it is a great great read and I had the honor of meeting him 2 weeks ago when I flew to Chicago.

I have since corresponded with him via email. He is a leading Paleontologist and evolutionists in the World and is responsible for the discovery of the Tiktaalik. A revolutionary missing link that bridges the gap between water and land.




Edit: Added for people scratching their heads lol Tiktaalik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eil_Shubin.jpg

[Mizango]

Darwinism isn't just a fad, its something I live. I've told this story a few times but I tried to evolve over the summer during my 5th and 6th grade years iirc because I thought going back to school with Gills and webbed hands and a dorsal fin was awesome.

Needless to say it didn't work, but since that day I spent countless hours and time between evolution and the Cosmos, my 2 main loves in life. So if I ramble on and on and seemingly then you know why, of if I come off as vicious after Jones or Lief derails my thread then again, you know why.

[Mizango]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Neil_Shubin.jpg/753px-Neil_Shubin.jpg[/img

FUCK YES. He is a really down to earth dude and loves what he does. I cant recommend that book enough, its an easy read and will make you realize things you never though about.

Especially the reason why your testicles "drop" as you are developing and how and why it is such a problem in young boy even today. I wont say more, get the book if you're curious. My 9 year old read it and grasped the concepts of it, so I know any of you can as well.

[Kiro]

First thread where I actually read every post. This thing better grow in pages soon, it's actually interesting stuff to read about.

I'm definitely gonna look for that book.

[Shojin]

Thanks for the answers about the climate. This is completely out of my area of any kind of expertise!

If you like this sort of thing and want to learn more about it, I recommend Catastrophe - Episode Guide | LocateTV. It's called Catastrophe, dedicated entirely to how the planet was formed, why our climate is the way it is, what affects it and the reason world catastrophes happened in the past (ice ages, volcanic ages etc).

I know there are other shows but this has been my fav, has amazing CG effects also, not to mention it's narrated by Tony Robinson. I have all episodes on my HDD.

EDIT: The episode list in that link has brief summaries of each episode, in case you want to choose specific ones.

[Mizango]

First thread where I actually read every post. This thing better grow in pages soon, it's actually interesting stuff to read about.

I'm definitely gonna look for that book.

See you're like me with the loony family, doing your own thing, not taking what you are forced to think and running with it etc. so this is right up your alley. You know, you and I are down like 4 flat tires. I wont steer you wrong lol, it will suck you in completely.

You'll forget that its not a non-fiction. I would send you my copy, but he signed it and wrote some cool shit for my daughter in it


Edit: Shojin is on the right track 100%. Nice call with that link broham.

[Stiker]

PM me if you have direct questions, I can literally go on for days about this. If you guys get a chance read "You inner fish" by Neil Shubin, it is a great great read and I had the honor of meeting him 2 weeks ago when I flew to Chicago.

Miz I'm frum Texas, I dun reed.

Sorry couldn't resist.

Anyways, yeah, things like climate and space have always fascinated me, but my passion took a hard turn into technology, computers and the like. So getting to reconnect on some of these things is awesome.

Also, Miz, your evolution story is beyond epic IMO. I don't think I ever would be sitting there saying "Fuck this bitches, I'm evolving!" Awesome.