How the Health Crisis was solved 80 years ago.

[Beckwin]

greater degree of collectivization, such as, I don't know, insurance?!

I hope you appreciate the irony here. One is voluntary, the other is forced upon people. One has to compete for service and quality, the other does not. One is liable for lawsuits, the other is not.

now come back to the real world, and tell me which countries are doing it better?

[Skjie]

I'm interested in what you guys will say when the Government tells you that families on the poverty line will be expected to pay into the healthcare whether they can afford it or not, like in Canada.

For instance, when determining if you are eligible for assistance on paying health premiums in my province, you cannot include any debt you have against your paycheque, and any savings you have must be put towards paying premiums first, no matter what the savings are for. At one point, I was straight up told by the government that the savings I had for school must go to pay premiums, even though I did not have a job at that time.

Eagerly anticipating your responses.

[Ryuushin]

I didn't realize doctors and nurses took years and years of higher education to make a good profit.

The issues in America always seem to have to deal with the "minority".. Currently 47 million uninsured and rising. Health care cost in America is roughly 17% of our GDP while France(which ranks #1) only spends about 9% of their GDP, which is obviously about half of what we spend. France is also obviously smaller but huge disparities in our system compared to France.

I really do believe we need health care reform but I'm not for the current proposed plan.

The biggest thing we should really do is focus on prevention and the food industry because that's one of the biggest factors in making us Americans sick. Children are getting obese and that leads to early onset diabetes or even diabetes itself and that's ridiculous.

[Beckwin]

Eagerly anticipating your responses.

I'm pretty sure the proposed plan includes subsidized insurance for low-income people who can't get it through their employer (or lack of one) so... not really sure what you're talking about?

It's not like a private insurer would hesitate to drop you at all if you were facing some debt or unemployment problems, so again, exactly where is even the theoretical deterioration of quality? If that's a real and common specific problem with the current Canadian system, then that would be nice to see fixed, but you don't appear to be very aware how private insurance works in the US. Can't pay much or at all because you lost your job and have a lot of debt over your head? tough shit, try not to get hurt.

[Beckwin]

and now let's look at how right-wing extremists are trying to solve the healthcare problem in America:

Gabrielle Giffords Town Hall: Gun Left Behind

Town hall disruptions around the country have led to some outbreaks of violence. Unions participating in town halls have received death threats. At an event held by Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) last week, the threat of violence led her aides to call the police after one attendee dropped a gun.

"Yelling and screaming is counterproductive," she told the Sierra Vista Herald at a Congress on Your Corner event last week. There, one visitor dropped a gun at the meet n' greet held in a Douglas Safeway, her staff says.
That has aides, who called police to the event, concerned for her safety.
"We have never felt the need before to notify law enforcement when we hold these events," said spokesman C.J. Karamargin.

One of the callers to the Service Employees International Union said, "I suggest you tell your people to calm down, act like American citizens, and stop trying to repress people's First Amendment rights... That, or you all are gonna come up against the Second Amendment."

[Olo401]

By god man, you are right! How could I have ever doubted the altruism of my own species?!

What fool am I?! What fool!

Doubted my ass. You just plain rejected that it was even possible.

[guartz]

now come back to the real world, and tell me which countries are doing it better?

Haha, well yes. *cough* *mumble, mumble* and further more, *cough* so there.

[Beckwin]

Let's Just Say It: We're Scared Someone's Going to Try to Kill Barack Obama - Barack Obama - Gawker

more right-wing extremists carrying at townhall meetings

[Headspace]

Chuck Norris : Dirty Secret No. 1 in Obamacare - Townhall.com

Next stop, Poland

[Beckwin]

My god, I can't believe how ignorant Norris is. So many people raise kids with less than stellar resources, and an optional government service to help educate parents on basic childcare and development sounds like a great help, especially in the problem neighborhoods the program appears to be targeting. A young single mother with low-education level may not have a good priest, friend, or their own parent whom they can consult with and get good advice.

There's a reason why ghettos in Michigan and poor rural areas have poor infant mortality rates along with so much underachievement should the children survive their birth and first couple of years.

But Norris plays "wah wah big government wants to take over parenting with homosexual liberal socialist agenda!!!!!!!!"

fuck chuck norris

[Skjie]

I'm pretty sure the proposed plan includes subsidized insurance for low-income people who can't get it through their employer (or lack of one) so... not really sure what you're talking about?

In Canada, if you make over 10k/year you have to pay somewhat, if you make over 20k, you have to pay $100 a month, no matter what other bills you have. 20k/year is low income in Canada (avg is 40k). Also, it is based on last year's wages, so if you quit or are laid off, good luck~

[Beckwin]

That's Canada's program, and while that does seem like it could be problematic (although 1200 a year for full coverage healthcare with no deductibles is a fucking steal compared to anything in America), Obama's proposal is not a carbon copy of it. I haven't seen anything in reading about Obama's plan that would indicate that sort of problem occuring; if your employer doesn't provide any insurance (private or Obamacare) and you cannot reasonably afford it at full cost, you received subsidized/free coverage.

[Skjie]

Not full coverage, just hospital and doctor visits, not drugs or any therapy. Don't get me wrong, it's better then what US has now, but "reasonably afford" is a stretchy definition. Right now, people just don't get covered, what happens when they are forced to find $1200 their budget just doesn't have?

[Beckwin]

I'm glad that you admit Canada's system is still better than what American's get. As for the $1200 for people barely scraping by on 20k a year, that sounds like a specific problem for Canada's Medicare that can/ought to be specifically addressed by Canada. But what you need to be considering is this: even with room for improvements with a new American government option, is it not still an improvement over the current situation? There's no perfect healthcare system in the world; only degrees of good and bad. I just find it hard to argue against a great general improvement with very small negative examples that are still less problematic than the drawbacks of the current system.

By all means, the smaller problems should be addressed and improved on, but that hardly discounts an overall better approach.

[The_Fall_Of_Roy]

God it's gonna be nice having real healthcare like other countries. <3

[Rhinox]

Rosa Parks Poster Torn Up At McCaskill Town Hall (VIDEO)

Oh you Deathers. Ye show thy true colours.

[Olo401]

God it's gonna be nice having real healthcare like other countries. <3

Dude.. your sig is hilarious!

[The_Fall_Of_Roy]

As is your "Fuck off Birther Scum". Poor GoP just putting a target on their back to be hit.

[archibaldcrane]

Chuck Norris : Dirty Secret No. 1 in Obamacare - Townhall.com

Next stop, Poland

It's really amazing how he acknowledges that it's voluntary, and then immediately goes back to images of storm-trooper social workers kicking down the doors of the poor and telling them to abort their children or else.

I mean, it's transparent to the point that ...noone could possibly read that op-ed piece and think it's not ridiculous.

Right?

I mean, it's like right there - you can't miss the obviously baseless fear-mongering.

...right?

I hate my country.

[Headspace]

Pretty sure Fall of Roy is Sirrus