How the Health Crisis was solved 80 years ago.

[guartz]

quit smoking and it'll be even cheaper then what your employer asks for.

[guartz]

and under hipaa guidelines, there should be no waiting period on pre-existing conditions so long as there are no breaks in your coverage. Unless you have a conditions where a company won't accept you outright? Do you have lupus or cancer?

[Rhinox]

Yea cause dick's like you smoke and make it harder for health insurance companies to sustain and provide service. Thanks alot.

Why don't you cut that shit out, stop pushing the results of your bad decisions on other people, before you start arguing about how bad insurance companies are.

Had fun owning you bitch. Lets do it again some time.

what the I don't even...

[Rhinox]

and under hipaa guidelines, there should be no waiting period on pre-existing conditions so long as there are no breaks in your coverage. Unless you have a conditions where a company won't accept you outright? Do you have lupus or cancer?

I didn't have heath insurance prior to working here. So there is a waiting period. One year I believe. So I gotta win the Insurance Lottery and if i get sick pray that my HRA will pay me back.

[Rhinox]

quit smoking and it'll be even cheaper then what your employer asks for.

Brilliant. Why didn't I think of this before.

[Ryuushin]

Sirrus. Honestly, if we have a public option, how much of your tax dollars will pay for lung cancer treatment? You could just think of it as providing for "insert disease you would want everyone to be treated for". That's the problem with people who don't want a public option, they don't want to see their tax money going to help people who have unhealthy habits. We could think of it that way but we could also think of our tax money helping children who have leukemia.

Anyways.. here are some examples of people who didn't have insurance.

From the documentary: CRITICAL CONDITION

I'll paraphrase these but link to the transcript, they are long. Bill Moyers Journal . Transcripts | PBS

DALE STORNAIUOLO: When Joe first got sick he was diagnosed with liver disease. I guess they felt that he just couldn't do his job no more. So Joe got terminated. Right after that they stopped his health insurance. And now it's like, what do we do?

Joe did not drink or have hepatitis, it was because his liver was starting to fail. His diabetes and liver disease caused swelling in the legs and he was supposed to take insulin 3x a day but only took 1x a day because it was expensive. He couldn't get social security yet because he was only 50 years old and couldn't get welfare because he made a bit too much. He was 50-60,000$ in debt due to medical bills.

Last hospital visit costed him 28,000$ dollars and the collection agency started to call them to pay up. He ended up dying of course.

KAREN DOVE: Approximately five months ago, the pain started on my lower stomach area, that's when I started getting concerned about cancer. A lot of the doctors wouldn't see me because I didn't have insurance and they actually turned me away. That was a denial of service, out and out denial of service.

I called the Cancer Society and told them that I didn't have insurance and that I was having trouble being diagnosed. And, Dr. Smith's office called and asked if I would like to have a visit with her. I was like, what? You're who? And you want to see me?

She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and the visit with Dr. Smith costed 1,139$ and she could only pay $40 a month under a payment plan. She worked for 10 years as an apartment manager but as the apartment complexes got bigger, she physically couldn't do it anymore because of the stairs and was let go. She lost her insurance that way.

KAREN DOVE: The Cancer Center did have to finally turn us into the collection agency. I turn off my phone because the collectors calling so often that you can't even rest. It's removal of ovary tubes, but they charge you for each tube. Well, so far we still got all of these. It's 23,775.89 dollars. I'm ready to pull my hair out, what hair I've got left. I can't stand it no more. It's driving me crazy. Our full debt is probably 80 thousand, and we only made 16 thousand last year.

Her cancer came back but she opted for a oral drug protocol which had side effects. She ended up getting pneumonia and died at age 50.

Isn't this rationed care? Working Americans not having HEALTH coverage is something we strive for?

[Beckwin]

consumption tax on cigarettes/alcohol/blatantly unhealthy shit can handle the bad habits crowd's effect on a public system, and it directly holds people accountable for their behaviors.

[Skjie]

I do not believe that taxes on smokes pay for all treatments due to their effects.

[Beckwin]

I'm saying we could make so they roughly would.

[Sirrus_Asura]

what the I don't even...

And you've lost. Thanks for playing kid. Bye bye.

Sirrus. Honestly, if we have a public option, how much of your tax dollars will pay for lung cancer treatment? You could just think of it as providing for "insert disease you would want everyone to be treated for". That's the problem with people who don't want a public option, they don't want to see their tax money going to help people who have unhealthy habits. We could think of it that way but we could also think of our tax money helping children who have leukemia.

Smoking is a choice, Leukemia isn't. My friend has Leukemia and I certainly don't want to see him die any time soon.

But I understand where the confusion comes in.

My point is that if Rhinox is so advocative of helping the down trotten and poor, then he wouldn't be smoking or indulging in other bad habits, thus pushing the costs of his actions on to everyone else already (Poor and Rich Included).

I have no problem with the idea of giving money to those who need it. I still think it should be a choice though.

[Rhinox]

And you've lost. Thanks for playing kid. Bye bye.

nice strawman.

Smoking is a choice, Leukemia isn't. My friend has Leukemia and I certainly don't want to see him die any time soon.

But I understand where the confusion comes in.

My point is that if Rhinox is so advocative of helping the down trotten and poor, then he wouldn't be smoking or indulging in other bad habits, thus pushing the costs of his actions on to everyone else already (Poor and Rich Included).

I have no problem with the idea of giving money to those who need it. I still think it should be a choice though.

I thought you were for free choice? What about my choice to Smoke if I so desire? I mean if you're gonna continue waivering on your beliefs their really isnt any point in acknowledging your existence now is there? Btw Should we ban smoking in the military?

[Sirrus_Asura]

nice strawman.

Pretty funny coming from a guy who can't read / address a point to save his life. Try again.

I thought you were for free choice? What about my choice to Smoke if I so desire? I mean if you're gonna continue waivering on your beliefs their really isnt any point in acknowledging your existence now is there? Btw Should we ban smoking in the military?

Just wow lol. You're loosing hard kid. Way to miss / distract from the point entirely. Once again, Nice Try.

Just to indulge you, Ill answer. I am for free choice, smoke all you want, same for the military. Doesn't mean I can't laugh / point at fucktards who are lazy hypocritical douchers(You).

If you're so up and arms about helping the poor, you wouldn't be smoking or indulging in other bad habits. You're hurting people now by raising their premiums, and you'll hurt them under a single payer system with their taxes.

Quit pretending you care.

[Rhinox]

Pretty funny coming from a guy who can't read / address a point to save his life. Try again.

Just wow lol. You're loosing hard kid. Way to miss / distract from the point entirely. Once again, Nice Try.

Actually I've answered all your retarded questions. Not my fault it goes over your head. I blame the Georgian public school system and you being nothing but retarded waste of inbred sperm.

Protip: saying nice try doesn't win you any arguments. Neither does calling anyone "kid".

Just to indulge you, Ill answer. I am for free choice, smoke all you want, same for the military. Doesn't mean I can't laugh / point at fucktards who are lazy hypocritical douchers(You).

How exactly is this hypocritical? you know nothing of my Smoking habits. I could smoke one cigarette a week and still be considered a smoker under the Insurance company. I like how you can draw conclusions without really knowing anything about me. Would be just like me drawing the conclusion that your parents had to be siblings for the level of retard that comes out of your posts.

If you're so up and arms about helping the poor, you wouldn't be smoking or indulging in other bad habits. You're hurting people now by raising their premiums, and you'll hurt them under a single payer system with their taxes.

Quit pretending you care.

If we had a single payer healthcare system we wouldn't have to worry about premiums now would we? thanks for Highlighting my argument for me.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Aren't Dem's against monopolies? Why replace a partial monopoly with a total monopoly? Government monopolies are worse than private ones in my opinion.

[Beckwin]

liberals are against profit motive, especially in regards to healthcare.

[Rhinox]

Because healthcare in essence is a natural monopoly. If we can't afford it we die.

[Talus]

Since the concept of Single payer goes over your head I'll wiki it for you because I don't have the patience atm.

Single-payer health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


btw that Doomsday scenerio won't happen. and really aside from a few places doesn't happen anywhere in the world.

It seems like this shit is going over your head. I'm well aware of what single-payer is, and that it would be run by the government. My point was that Medicare and Medicaid are managed by the government, and how well is that working out again?

Oh right, just like I said, physicians are refusing to accept new Medicare patients en masse, and have every right to as long as there is no Medicare money involved (i.e. for residencies, etc).

It looks like you don't understand what the fuck you're talking about, other than reading wikipedia.

The real issue is access. Assume we go to a single-payer system in the future, instead of the multi-payer mix we currently have (Medicare/Medicaid/private insurance, Federal employee plans, VA, uninsured-oh wait they eat those costs in ERs, etc). What do you think will happen to already long wait times to see a general practitioner, who by the way, is much more likely to be a nurse practitioner (NP) or physician assistant (PA) in the future?

It's apparent you never go to the doctor, and you must be healthy. You should be thankful for that because you really have no clue.

[Beckwin]

Medicare and Medicaid are managed by the government, and how well is that working out again?

they provide the most care per dollar and generally function pretty well; the main flaw is that they don't cover every citizen.

inb4 bankrupt in 3 years

[Talus]

I think the last thing I read said they would be bankrupt in the 2030s sometime.

[Edit: Most care per dollar is kind of a misleading statistic, considering pre-approval is required for some surgeries and procedures. Maybe doctors don't practice as much defensive medicine with Medicare patients?]

[Beckwin]

no, it's not really that misleading: medicare doesn't divert funds toward advertising, profits, and maintaining medical-loss ratios that keep investors happy.

medicare isn't perfect, but there's reasons no one would dare take it away. and putting the finances of public/private aside, the bottom line is that someone on Medicare doesn't get turned away from treatment they need.