How the Health Crisis was solved 80 years ago.

[Khamsin]

I'll give you that it's funny, but during those times there were no kidney transplants.

Well, the point more being that unskilled medical services extended beyond taking your temperature.

And even if all they really did do back then was take your temperature, stick leeches on you and give you some chicken soup, licensure is definitely a good idea nowadays.

[guartz]

If you were a manager at a hospital, would you hire a dude who didn't have some kind of test of competence?

[Khamsin]

If you were a manager at a hospital, would you hire a dude who didn't have some kind of test of competence?

In a modern world without licensure? No. But it's basically an option between trusting an employer to be a good judge of character and rely only on references and what a guy puts on his resume, or all of that plus standardized testing and a board responsible for verifying competence requirements and providing disciplinary action (beyond just getting fired). For positions that put public safety at risk, I think the stricter requirements are a good thing.

It's also a byproduct of our legal system, but that's another issue.

Unless your complaint is that licensure arbitrarily limits the number of people who can perform certain duties to those who can afford it or had advantages in life versus those who could have been good at it but were too poor or didn't have the correct opportunities at the correct times to get themselves on the long and rigorous track toward being in the medical (or other licensed) field. And as such, inflates salaries because less people are allowed to do it.

However, medicine isn't a trade skill. It's not something that some doctor dad can teach his son, apprentice him, and have him take over the family clinic when he grows up. Unless he made lots of money and sent his son to a good school for twice as long as everyone else and his son passed all the necessary tests and filled out all the necessary paperwork for licensure. Then his son could take over.

Maybe some people could be good enough to do that, but I don't want to trust my life to chance on whether the guy I'm going to really was competent or just had the right friends and managed to get hired despite being an idiot.

[Olo401]

If you were a manager at a hospital, would you hire a dude who didn't have some kind of test of competence?

Given the original post for this thread, I'm actually amazed you're even asking this question.

[Beckwin]

I actually don't feel bad because I'm only suggesting how healthcare problems came about in America. So far I've only been met with politically biased responses. It's not my political opinion that AMA organized a cartel to stagnate the supply of physicians, it's a fact. It's not my biased view that state and federal regulations of the past set the theme of price increases, it's a fact.

This healthcare reform act will help people, yes, but it's not worthy of praise it's getting. Not gonna fix anything in the long run. It's business as usual for the cartels and billionaire ceos, you are just cost shifting from employers to taxpayers, and adding on a few uninsured, sick and unmeasurables to sweeten the deal.

So basically, you're showing how a cartel of rationally selfish businessmen came to dominate a market and then exert influence over the government to serve that rational selfishness, and you're trying to tell us a state-run, non-profit solution is wrong?

nigga plz

You also continually fail to acknowledge how other countries have managed to implement state-run health care to high degrees of success. I guess American exceptionalism dies when there's no wars to fight or profits to reap.

[Beckwin]

If you were a manager at a hospital, would you hire a dude who didn't have some kind of test of competence?

sure, especially if it was easy to obscure the lack of credentials to a client base and if it was cheaper to hire this guy.

you really underestimate what profit motive does to decision making.

[Beckwin]

How does BG General feel about state run healthcare (instead of federal)?
If you don't like how your state does healthcare, move.

But as it stands, federal nation-wide-esk healthcare isn't really a public option. (Unless they've revised it lol) *Everyone* is being forced into dealing with it, and that really is an invasion of our rights.

yes, because the poorer people who need coverage right now will obviously have the funding and new job available to move to another state. not to mention that while the federal government is hardly the most shining example of efficiency right now, state governments in general tend to make our federal government look like a well-oiled machine.

[guartz]

So basically, you're showing how a cartel of rationally selfish businessmen came to dominate a market and then exert influence over the government to serve that rational selfishness, and you're trying to tell us a state-run, non-profit solution is wrong?

nigga plz

You also continually fail to acknowledge how other countries have managed to implement state-run health care to high degrees of success. I guess American exceptionalism dies when there's no wars to fight or profits to reap.

Well first of all, AMA exerted influence on the government THEN came to dominate the market. It's a pretty serious difference, and ironically, it wasn't to "serve their selfishness" but to create a national commune of physicians, equal pay for equal labor. So nigga pls. lol

I also don't think that any other country has our military expenditure. They use that money to pay for healthcare. So if we keep status quo with the spending, inflation will guarantee that further division between rich and poor.

[Olo401]

I also don't think that any other country has our military expenditure. They use that money to pay for healthcare. So if we keep status quo with the spending, inflation will guarantee that further division between rich and poor.

DEAL! Let's stop killing people in other countries, and stop sending our people to die for stupid made-up reasons and profit motives, and put the money towards universal health care.

[Beckwin]

DEAL! Let's stop killing people in other countries, and stop sending our people to die for stupid made-up reasons and profit motives, and put the money towards universal health care.

but but teh free market

[Beckwin]

Well first of all, AMA exerted influence on the government THEN came to dominate the market. It's a pretty serious difference, and ironically, it wasn't to "serve their selfishness" but to create a national commune of physicians, equal pay for equal labor. So nigga pls. lol

A "commune" of physicians wouldn't actively lobby against compulsory insurance/government healthcare for the better part of a century. the AMA had hugely negative reactions to New Deal initiatives and then the founding of Medicare.

maybe the AMA started as something of a collective union for medical professionals and has certainly in some parts continued benevolent activities to this day, but denying the economic self-interest that took root in the AMA which led to opposing government options for healthcare is pretty ignorant, imo.

[Sirrus_Asura]

yes, because the poorer people who need coverage right now will obviously have the funding and new job available to move to another state. not to mention that while the federal government is hardly the most shining example of efficiency right now, state governments in general tend to make our federal government look like a well-oiled machine.

You act like the government couldn't start a program to help people move to a healthcare state. Is that out of their power?

So everyone should be apart of the government healthcare system regardless of how that state feels and you don't think that's fucked up in the slightest bit? That's not even a fair choice.

Once again, I'm amazed at your faith in government not to fuck this up.

[Olo401]

You act like the government couldn't start a program to help people move to a healthcare state. Is that out of their power?

So everyone should be apart of the government healthcare system regardless of how that state feels and you don't think that's fucked up in the slightest bit? That's not even a fair choice.

Once again, I'm amazed at your faith in government not to fuck this up.

Uhh.. did you miss the part where no one would be forced to join a public option if they had their own insurance already?

I get the whole states rights thing.. but this debate has nothing to do with states rights at all. It's about individual rights - to have access to quality health care at an affordable price, and to have a choice to keep their own existing health plan if they wish.

[Sirrus_Asura]

Uhh.. did you miss the part where no one would be forced to join a public option if they had their own insurance already?

I get the whole states rights thing.. but this debate has nothing to do with states rights at all. It's about individual rights - to have access to quality health care at an affordable price, and to have a choice to keep their own existing health plan if they wish.

Did you miss the part where if your insurance plan policy changes you have to switch over to Universal? Or the part where if you're not insured once this goes through, you're stuck w/ the Gov. Plan? How about the part where once you switch to Universal Health you're stuck period.

Feel free to correct me if I have some misunderstanding of this all.


Edit: Fuck you. Why should I be forced to have ANY insurance?

[Olo401]

Did you miss the part where if your insurance plan policy changes you have to switch over to Universal? Or the part where if you're not insured once this goes through, you're stuck w/ the Gov. Plan? How about the part where once you switch to Universal Health you're stuck period.

Feel free to correct me if I have some misunderstanding of this all.

First, got sources for any of this?

Second.. if you don't I do - http://healthcarereformmyths.org/

[Rhinox]

Did you miss the part where if your insurance plan policy changes you have to switch over to Universal? Or the part where if you're not insured once this goes through, you're stuck w/ the Gov. Plan? How about the part where once you switch to Universal Health you're stuck period.

Feel free to correct me if I have some misunderstanding of this all.


Edit: Fuck you. Why should I be forced to have ANY insurance?

Oh lawld. My spidey sense tells me you read what the plan is from an email or heard it from a wingnut show. If you didn't then you're just flat out retarded.

[Rhinox]

Also fuck yeah dude. Why show we be forced to pay for emergency services and the military? I don't use any of that shit. That's not freedom!!

[Sirrus_Asura]

First, got sources for any of this?

Second.. if you don't I do - http://healthcarereformmyths.org/

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Explain Sec. 102 for me plox. If I've got this entire thing wrong, I have no problem admitting it.


Edit: Oh snap Rhinox, ya got me there! Hey, fun fact: the Military =/= Healthcare. By the way, where did you read what the health care bill says?

[Rhinox]

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Explain Sec. 102 for me plox. If I've got this entire thing wrong, I have no problem admitting it.


Edit: Oh snap Rhinox, ya got me there! Hey, fun fact: the Military =/= Healthcare. By the way, where did you read what the health care bill says?

Fun Fact: 36 cents out of every tax dollar is pumped into the military. Another Fun fact: We haven't been attacked by a nation since WW II. You really want to cut government spending? Have them stop sending us to fucking Needless Wars.

Btw I find this to funny and wonder if anyone else picked it up.

You act like the government couldn't start a program to help people move to a healthcare state. Is that out of their power?

So everyone should be apart of the government healthcare system regardless of how that state feels and you don't think that's fucked up in the slightest bit? That's not even a fair choice.

Once again, I'm amazed at your faith in government not to fuck this up.

Translation:

Eww, Poor people.

You know you really need to get down pat what it means to be conservative because you're failing horribly. You're against healthcare for everyone but for Government relocation programs brilliant!

Also I didn't read the whole bill but I did read alot from the same link you posted. You don't need to take part in healthcare asshole it isn't a requirement. You don't want government healthcare? A. keep your current plan or B. don't go to the hospital.

gotta love all these assholes who would rather have a Pay or Die system then something that you know might actually benefit the majority of this country cause it smells of dare I say it?

Spoiler: show

Socialism

[Sirrus_Asura]

Fun Fact: 36 cents out of every tax dollar is pumped into the military. Another Fun fact: We haven't been attacked by a nation since WW II. You really want to cut government spending? Have them stop sending us to fucking Needless Wars.

1st where did I advocate war? 2ndly what does this prove?

Btw I find this to funny and wonder if anyone else picked it up.

You act like the government couldn't start a program to help people move to a healthcare state. Is that out of their power?

So everyone should be apart of the government healthcare system regardless of how that state feels and you don't think that's fucked up in the slightest bit? That's not even a fair choice.

Once again, I'm amazed at your faith in government not to fuck this up.

Translation:

Eww Poor People

You know you really need to get down pat what it means to be conservative because you're failing horribly. You're against healthcare for everyone but for Government relocation programs brilliant!

Translation:

I like fishsticks.

I can do that too.
Seriously, Troll harder or read better.

Also I didn't read the whole bill but I did read alot from the same link you posted. You don't need to take part in healthcare asshole it isn't a requirement. You don't want government healthcare? A. keep your current plan or B. don't go to the hospital.

Way to address the point about switching plans and if your premiums change.

I like your idea though, much better then the current system.

gotta love all these assholes who would rather have a Pay or Die system then something that you know might actually benefit the majority of this country cause it smells of dare I say it?

Healthcare for everyone isn't a bad idea. Our federal government running it is.


Try harder next time.