How the Health Crisis was solved 80 years ago.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

What the bill says, pages 167-168, section 401, TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE:

‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—

(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer. . . .”

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

What? care to point out where it says you will pay fines if you keep your current plan?

This is the new "death panel," they'll keep making shit up to get their base up in arms and bring more, well, arms, to town halls.

This is certainly the most reasonable bullshit they've come up with, I guess since they have the base fired up they're going for the middle-of-the-road people. Smart strategy, shit almost worked when they said Obama would raise taxes during the election.

[Darus Grey]

What the bill says, pages 167-168, section 401, TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE:

‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—

(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer. . . .”

I can only assume you haven't read that yourself and are just parroting someone else.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I can only assume you haven't read that yourself and are just parroting someone else.

Well here then, straight from the PDF. And learn to read finesse.

‘‘Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable
17 Health Care Coverage
‘‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
18 ‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00167 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
168
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in2
come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
5 ‘‘(b) LIMITATIONS.—
6 ‘‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.—
7 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The tax imposed
8 under subsection (a) with respect to any tax9
payer for any taxable year shall not exceed the
10 applicable national average premium for such
11 taxable year.

[Rhinox]

its already been explained.

Anyone without health insurance -- specifically those who choose to run around without health insurance because they're too cheap and stupid -- will now have to pay something into a system that is required to take care of them when they contract a serious illness or get hit by a bus. Let's see… if the guy makes $100,000 per year, the total tax is $2,500, which is far less than he would pay for health insurance now. And for those who think this is especially unfair to rich people who choose not to carry insurance because of their immense wealth, don't worry; the amount is capped at the size of the average health insurance premium. In return, the rest of us won't have to pick up the tab when the uninsured numb nuts is wheeled into the emergency room for a trauma because he was riding his dirt bike and slammed into a tree while not wearing a helmet. .



In other words, this is something to applaud, not to hate. It should encourage people to opt into the insurance system, which saves everyone money.

Pleasecutthecrap.com

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Where in the bill does it say that? You don't believe the "death panel" stuff without citation do you?

[Rhinox]

Swampy can you name me one 'free market' solution that can guarantee coverage for everyone and not exclude people because of pre-existing conditions?

ahem

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Well here then, straight from the PDF. And learn to read finesse.

‘‘Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable
17 Health Care Coverage
‘‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
18 ‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00167 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
168
•HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in2
come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
5 ‘‘(b) LIMITATIONS.—
6 ‘‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.—
7 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The tax imposed
8 under subsection (a) with respect to any tax9
payer for any taxable year shall not exceed the
10 applicable national average premium for such
11 taxable year.

I can read, and I'm not creating a boogieman out of something that's not even said. It says if you don't have an acceptable plan, not if you don't have the public option. Again, you're regurgitating fear tactics from talk radio.

Show me where it is worded EXACTLY the way you did. It fucking doesn't, stop making shit up to make your case. You and your ilk are the most unpatriotic, lying, sniveling pieces of shit on the planet and you have the audacity to call US Nazi's when your base consists of the KKK, Neo-Nazi's and right wing militia that storms churches and bombs buildings just to "kill liberals."

Please, stop making shit up.

[Rhinox]

Where in the bill does it say that? You don't believe the "death panel" stuff without citation do you?

This is whats its for. Nothing malicious about it.

[Darus Grey]

That's cool and all, you like to quote large blocks of text that have jack-shit to do with what you were saying, in the assumed intent to subdue through intimidation, hoping they won't read it but will just assume you're right because it's a lot of text. Bad Strategy.

Well here then, straight from the PDF. And learn to read finesse.

lolstuff,what a joke

Rhinox asked you to point out where you'd pay fines for keeping your current plan. You posted jack-shit in regards to that, because well, you're fucking wrong.

The actual relevant passage is this one, which explicity defines "acceptable coverage", in which practically every existing policy I can think of would be included, either in the main body, or the exclusions.

pages 26-30, SEC. 122, ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED:



(a) IN GENERAL.—In this division, the term ‘‘essential benefits package’’ means health benefits coverage, consistent with standards adopted under section 124 to ensure the provision of quality health care and financial security . . .



(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.

(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .

(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.

(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .

(5) Prescription drugs.

(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.

(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.

(8) Preventive services . . .

(9) Maternity care.

(10) Well baby and well child care . . .



(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .



(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

[Rhinox]

I can read, and I'm not creating a boogieman out of something that's not even said. It says if you don't have an acceptable plan, not if you don't have the public option. Again, you're regurgitating fear tactics from talk radio.

Show me where it is worded EXACTLY the way you did. It fucking doesn't, stop making shit up to make your case. You and your ilk are the most unpatriotic, lying, sniveling pieces of shit on the planet and you have the audacity to call US Nazi's when your base consists of the KKK, Neo-Nazi's and right wing militia that storms churches and bombs buildings just to "kill liberals."

Please, stop making shit up.

This is what you get when you have simpletons read a complex bill. They start reading shit into it that is not really there.

This is the mistake by the fucking Democrats. they should have just added a few lines to include everyone in medicare that want to be in it. Instead you have a complex bill that done from scratch that leaves open doors for wingnuts to make up shit.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

That's cool and all, you like to quote large blocks of text that have jack-shit to do with what you were saying, in the assumed intent to subdue through intimidation, hoping they won't read it but will just assume you're right because it's a lot of text. Bad Strategy.



Rhinox asked you to point out where you'd pay fines for keeping your current plan. You posted jack-shit in regards to that, because well, you're fucking wrong.

The actual relevant passage is this one, which explicity defines "acceptable coverage", in which practically every existing policy I can think of would be included, either in the main body, or the exclusions.

Thank you, good sir, for breaking out your very relevant 13" inches and shoving them firmly down the throat of controversy. I applaud you graciously.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

ahem

Sorry I must have scrolled over that.

And no, there is isn't "one" thing that will help but I do their is combination of things that can happen that will make it affordable for people with pre-existing conditions to be covered.

Eliminate mandates.
Allow insurance to be sold across state lines.

The first thing alone would cut costs in some states by as much as 50%! Now follow me, if you cut the price by 50% how many more people that can't afford it now, can suddenly afford it? I would be willing to bet you a ton of money that now insurance companies could afford to cover people with pre-existing conditions with all the extra income. Either that or now insurance companies could afford catastrophic coverage for themselves.

There's two other things that could happen but they're totally implausible so not worth mentioning.

Edit @ Finesse: How many Americans have health savings accounts? All would be taxed. How many American's don't meet these conditions:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.

(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .

(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.

(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .

(5) Prescription drugs.

(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.

(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.

(8) Preventive services . . .

(9) Maternity care.

(10) Well baby and well child care . . .



(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .



(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

This is what you get when you have simpletons read a complex bill. They start reading shit into it that is not really there.

This is the mistake by the fucking Democrats. they should have just added a few lines to include everyone in medicare that want to be in it. Instead you have a complex bill that done from scratch that leaves open doors for wingnuts to make up shit.

They need to make bills like the Marauders Map, but in this case it's if you're fucking retarded you see a blank page instead of text.

[Rhinox]

Great. Now the poor can pay 50% less of something they still can't afford.


and it still excludes people don't it?

I'll admit its great for the insurance companies because its lets them increase their overhead and increase profit by raising premiums to compensate (byebye 50%!) but how exactly does it fix the problem?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

How long would it take to get banned if nearly all of my responses involved "you got that from the dailykooks" therefore...
...your a retard.
...lol marxists.
...your nothing but Obama machines.
...(some witty comment).
...you hate (insert social group here).
...you don't care about (insert social group here).

Did I leave any out?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Great. Now the poor can pay 50% less of something they still can't afford.


and it still excludes people don't it?

I'll admit its great for the insurance companies because its lets them increase their overhead and increase profit by raising premiums to compensate (byebye 50%!) but how exactly does it fix the problem?

Why would it still exclude people? It seems like insurance companies could afford to allow pre-existing conditions. Also, eliminating mandates would allow for unborn babies to be covered maybe? Oh, I forgot to mention eliminating the company tax credit. Get rid of it or give it to the people to create competition.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

How long would it take to get banned if nearly all of my responses involved "you got that from the dailykooks" therefore...
...your a retard.
...lol marxists.
...your nothing but Obama machines.
...(some witty comment).
...you hate (insert social group here).
...you don't care about (insert social group here).

Did I leave any out?

Your sidekicks lief and eunhye do it all the time. Go for it, get that rage out. It must feel better to add that as a backup to your outright lies about health care policy. It's not even interpretation you're posting. You outright lie and then post proof of your lie from the bill and claim it exonerates you.

Jesus fuck what do you guys smoke and where can I get some?

[Rhinox]

Sorry I must have scrolled over that.

And no, there is isn't "one" thing that will help but I do their is combination of things that can happen that will make it affordable for people with pre-existing conditions to be covered.

Eliminate mandates.
Allow insurance to be sold across state lines.

The first thing alone would cut costs in some states by as much as 50%! Now follow me, if you cut the price by 50% how many more people that can't afford it now, can suddenly afford it? I would be willing to bet you a ton of money that now insurance companies could afford to cover people with pre-existing conditions with all the extra income. Either that or now insurance companies could afford catastrophic coverage for themselves.

There's two other things that could happen but they're totally implausible so not worth mentioning.

Edit @ Finesse: How many Americans have health savings accounts? All would be taxed. How many American's don't meet these conditions:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.

(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .

(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.

(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .

(5) Prescription drugs.

(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.

(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.

(8) Preventive services . . .

(9) Maternity care.

(10) Well baby and well child care . . .



(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .



(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

HSA's are Health Insurance policies now? Their more of investments for those that have HDHP's

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Your sidekicks lief and eunhye do it all the time. Go for it, get that rage out. It must feel better to add that as a backup to your outright lies about health care policy. It's not even interpretation you're posting. You outright lie and then post proof of your lie from the bill and claim it exonerates you.

Jesus fuck what do you guys smoke and where can I get some?

Are you stupid? I'm not insulting you, I'm asking honestly. How can I be lieing when all I'm doing is quoting the bill? Bill says X -> I quote bill exactly = I'm lieing? That's not complicated. I mean really, are you stupid?