How the Health Crisis was solved 80 years ago.

[Olo401]

Question:

Where in the bill does it say that? You don't believe the "death panel" stuff without citation do you?

Answer:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .

(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .

(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

Question:

Are you stupid? I'm not insulting you, I'm asking honestly. How can I be lieing when all I'm doing is quoting the bill? Bill says X -> I quote bill exactly = I'm lieing? That's not complicated. I mean really, are you stupid?

Answer:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .

(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .

(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

Question:

"IF YOU DON'T HAVE ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE YOU WILL BE TAXED" ME

"TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the..." HEALTH CARE BILL

WHERES THE LIE?

Answer:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .

(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .

(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

Question:

Until they can cite where in the bill it says what they claimed then it is not debunked.

Answer:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .

(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .

(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

Question:

What in god's name is wrong with asking for proof? Did you guys believe the death panel stuff?

Answer:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .

(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .

(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

Question:

What did I post that refutes what I said? And all I'm asking for is a citation. If it's true it shouldn't be that hard.

Answer:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .

(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .

(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

Questions:

And then I said "how many American's don't meet this criteria?" And then listed the criteria, just in case I was wrong about that.

And you cited a website not the bill. Cite the bill and I'll shutup. I doubt you'd let me cite my neocon websites as fact.

Answer:

(b) MINIMUM SERVICES TO BE COVERED.—The items and services described in this subsection are the following:

(1) Hospitalization.
(2) Outpatient hospital and outpatient clinic services . . .
(3) Professional services of physicians and other health professionals.
(4) Such services, equipment, and supplies incident to the services of a physician’s or a health professional’s delivery of care . . .
(5) Prescription drugs.
(6) Rehabilitative and habilitative services.
(7) Mental health and substance use disorder services.
(8) Preventive services . . .
(9) Maternity care.
(10) Well baby and well child care . . .

(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING AND MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE . . .

(3) MINIMUM ACTUARIAL VALUE.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The cost-sharing under the essential benefits package shall be designed to provide a level of coverage that is designed to provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to approximately 70 percent of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the reference benefits package described in subparagraph (B).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdO4LqaaeCU

Glad I could help you understand Swampy. And thank you so fucking much for the chance to play some Soul Coughing dude I miss that band.

[Olo401]

Also, Think Progress � EXCLUSIVE: Health Insurance Lobby’s Stealth Astroturf Campaign Revealed because you know the insurance companies don't want to stop letting people die/be driven into poverty by a medical condition.

[Beckwin]

Beckwin, to take the licensing exams, you need proof of U.S residency, and a citizenship for USMLE. Which we already established in out last conversation. Only viable alternative is getting married, military service or J-1 waiver (which is issued at discretion, based on need) and does NOT guarantee residency in USA.

residency and citizenship are two different things, guartz. did you read what I posted?

I'm working on finding more figures, but I found one stating that 40% of our Ph.D's doing scientific research were born in another country.

I do not buy your line that in order to practice medicine in the US, you must wait 7 years as a resident (doing non-medical work) to do so. It's bullshit and I suggest you drop it. But even forgetting that, you have to look at the greater issue- how ethical is it to greatly increase our imports of doctors from primarily poor countries with a worse medical situation? It's not like the Canadians/British/French/Japanese are the doctors lining up but having to work 7 years as a janitor first; we're obviously talking about south/latin american people, Indians, and Africans.

either way, your point is and should be a non-issue for domestic healthcare reform.

[Beckwin]

btw guartz, did those Ethiopian doctors in Chicago all work flipping burgers for 7 years before practicing?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Question: Glad I could help you understand Swampy. And thank you so fucking much for the chance to play some Soul Coughing dude I miss that band.

Except we just figured out HSA don't cover 70% of the costs. So goodbye to those.

[guartz]

residency and citizenship are two different things, guartz. did you read what I posted?

I'm working on finding more figures, but I found one stating that 40% of our Ph.D's doing scientific research were born in another country.

I do not buy your line that in order to practice medicine in the US, you must wait 7 years as a resident (doing non-medical work) to do so. It's bullshit and I suggest you drop it.

U.S residency not to be confused with medical residency, which is about 1 year in most states. And foreign born is not specific enough. You can be foreign born and still have U.S education and naturalization. How many of them are foreign educated?

Speaking of education. There are about twice the amount of students trying to get in, then there is room for.

[Rhinox]

Except we just figured out HSA don't cover 70% of the costs. So goodbye to those.

Except we just figured that HSA's are not a Health Insurance plan merely a supplement/tax advantage to HDHP's. And that they are are immune to federal Income tax or any Tax Liabilities for that matter.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Except we just figured that HSA's are not a Health Insurance plan merely a supplement/tax advantage to HDHP's. And that they are are immune to federal Income tax or any Tax Liabilities for that matter.

If HDHP's go away will HSA's go away?

And regardless, the main point still stands, any American that has a plan that doesn't meet those criteria will be punished with higher taxes. I might have been wrong about this one particular plan, but that does not negate the overall point.

[Rhinox]

If HDHP's go away will HSA's go away?

And regardless, the main point still stands, any American that has a plan that doesn't meet those criteria will be punished with higher taxes. I might have been wrong about this one particular plan, but that does not negate the overall point.

that's a fair question to ask and should be debated. this is the kind of shit that should be asked in the town hall meetings instead of the fear mongering garbage that has been going on.


as to the rest of your post I still don't know of one Health insurance plan that doesn't meet those basic requirements.

[kuronosan]

U.S residency not to be confused with medical residency, which is about 1 year in most states. And foreign born is not specific enough. You can be foreign born and still have U.S education and naturalization. How many of them are foreign educated?

Speaking of education. There are about twice the amount of students trying to get in, then there is room for.

Just to be clear, in order to get into Medical School even as a foreign student with an M.D., you have to pass boards here and go through 2-4 years of additional medical school in the U.S. before you can even begin your residency.

[Beckwin]

U.S residency not to be confused with medical residency, which is about 1 year in most states. And foreign born is not specific enough. You can be foreign born and still have U.S education and naturalization. How many of them are foreign educated?

Speaking of education. There are about twice the amount of students trying to get in, then there is room for.

well I guess we should build some more state-operated medical schools... wait, why isn't the private sector filling this obvious demand? oh yeah lolfreemarket

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

well I guess we should build some more state-operated medical schools... wait, why isn't the private sector filling this obvious demand? oh yeah lolfreemarket

If I understand what you to are talking about, it's not a free-market Beckwin. The more doctors there are the less money they can all charge. Hence the reason so many are restricted from becoming doctors.

[Beckwin]

I'm talking about more doctoral programs so that we have more doctors, whether they are foreign-born or American citizens. The AMA is powerful enough to stop private universities from offering MD programs? come now.

and don't confuse "restricting people from becoming doctors" with "let's make sure the people opening up chest cavities know what the fuck they're doing"

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I'm talking about more doctoral programs so that we have more doctors, whether they are foreign-born or American citizens. The AMA is powerful enough to stop private universities from offering MD programs? come now.

and don't confuse "restricting people from becoming doctors" with "let's make sure the people opening up chest cavities know what the fuck they're doing"

I think the AMA accredits places right? And you can't practice without graduating from an accredited institution. It's the same for doctors as for lawyers I think, Cali being the only exception.

[Darus Grey]

I think the AMA accredits places right? And you can't practice without graduating from an accredited institution. It's the same for doctors as for lawyers I think, Cali being the only exception.

You don't have to go to school to be a lawyer in most states. You just need to pass the bar exam. I passed my bar and never went to law school, common thing for linguists to do.

Oh, and yes, the AMA does have the power to stop colleges from offering MD programs, you cannot be a medical doctor in the U.S. without being certified by the AMA. That was the entire point of this thread originally, the formation of the AMA killed off these "health co-ops".

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

You don't have to go to school to be a lawyer in most states. You just need to pass the bar exam. I passed my bar and never went to law school, common thing for linguists to do.

What state was that?

Nvm found it. What the hell I shoulda done that instead of law school.

[Darus Grey]

What state was that?

Nvm found it.

NY, though to retcon what I said, that's apparently changed since I did it a decade ago, used to be most states, now it's only like 10 states, including NY.

[kuronosan]

In pretty much every state, whether you have an MD or not (from here or another country), you have to graduate from an AMA-accredited school to practice. That obviously depends on state restrictions for examinations but in most every state it's the same.

[Beckwin]

how many schools have been denied starting MD programs due to the AMA (just wanting to keep doctors in higher demand/services at higher prices)?

[Rhinox]

The Republican ticket is getting shorter and shorter by the minute.

Huckabee: Kennedy Would Have Been Urged To Die Earlier Under ObamaCare


Its got to the point where they're gonna have turn to the Partisan hack known as Eric Cantor if they really want any shot at winning in 2012.