Why did the US government torture and imprison a 12 year old for 6 years?

[TaruMortis]

so wait. wait
let me think about this. just..
ok...


this guy was 12 years old for 6years and they were torturing him only to find out if he chucked a grenade? I would have at least tried to find out how he stayed 12 for so long.

lol was thinking the exact same thing.

[Skjie]

So, what do you have to say about the part where America ratified an agreement where children are not to be held as enemy combatants?

[Atreides]

ITT people don't want to be thought of as monsters for secretly thinking it's ok to torture children as long as they're arabs, so they just question the patriotism of the person who brought it up.

[Kuya]

Read what Khamsin wrote. He summed it up beautifully. Maybe you live in a wonderful fantasy land where everything is fair, but war is not fair. He was identified by two of his own countrymen as throwing that grenade. In war that's more than enough to keep his ass locked up.

And again, in case you are selectively reading what i said, I think the torture is fucked up too. But given the evidence at the time, I'm not suprised in the least he was locked up.

Edit:



I spit out my water. Thanks i needed the laugh lol.

The witnesses were never found and who these witnesses were was never mentioned. And they still held him in jail.

[Leif]

They don't even know how old he is. He could be like... a really young-looking 35-year-old.

You don't get a free pass if you throw grenades at our military no matter how young you are.

The witnesses were never found and who these witnesses were was never mentioned. And they still held him in jail.

ATTENTION! CALLING ALL SWARTHY MALES! PLEASE TESTIFY AGAINST YOUR FELLOW TERRORIST!

This guy was determined to be a threat. End of story. Do you want him back on the street? Why don't you just put the grenade in his hand?

[Neosutra]

His confession was ruled inadmissible because of just that.

BBC says he is currently scheduled for release.

What's the story here?

I consider all that stuff he went through pretty fair game for throwing grenades at an American convoy.

Man, what the fuck is wrong with you.

I'm in those convoys and I can say this shit is fucked up. This doesnt represent the country I fight for, it doesnt make me or my troops safer, and people like you need to drink a large glass of clorox.

[Leif]

So would you like more or less grenades thrown at you?

Edit: What part isn't safer? Putting bomb-throwers in Gitmo? Or making them endure more than comfy chairs and People while they're there.

[Neosutra]

Killing/torturing/detaining kids that we have no evidence even threw the grenades will make less grenades be thrown at me?

Stop using my safety to mask your cowardice and prejudice. How can you even call yourself an American.

[Demosthenes11]

ITT: Kuya is an amerkan that hates amerka

I gotta hand it to you mr. kuya, your people make some bomb ass food. I ate a great meal at a sol food place the other day (puerto rican cuisine).

[Atreides]

ITT Leif defends torturing children because they're arabs

[Leif]

Killing/torturing/detaining kids that we have no evidence even threw the grenades will make less grenades be thrown at me?

We actually had a very nice and thorough confession. That works for me. He confessed, they locked him up. Then when it was ruled inadmissible, he is now facing release.

How would you have handled this situation better, American? Released him right after he proclaimed "I did it! I threw a grenade at the convoy!"?

Stop using my safety to mask your cowardice and prejudice. How can you even call yourself an American.

Like it or not, I actually care about your safety and the safety of your fellow troops. I don't like people throwing bombs at Americans.

ITT Leif defends torturing children because they're arabs

Why is everything about race to you people? He threw a grenade.

[Atreides]

And if he was a white kid in the suburbs you'd be just as outraged as we are, but that's a moot point because instead of being held for 6 years without a trial he'd have been, at the very least, brought to trial and at worst, put until juvenile detention until his record was expunged at 18.

Seriously, stop pretending your patriotism is anything but racism.

edit: and if you think he'll just be magically "released" anytime soon you're deluding yourself

[Neosutra]

We actually had a very nice and thorough confession. That works for me. He confessed, they locked him up. Then when it was ruled inadmissible, he is now facing release.

How would you have handled this situation better, American? Released him right after he proclaimed "I did it! I threw a grenade at the convoy!"?


Like it or not, I actually care about your safety and the safety of your fellow troops. I don't like people throwing bombs at Americans.


Why is everything about race to you people? He threw a grenade.

No one saw him throw the grenade.

He was told by afghan police that they would kill him and his family if he didnt confess.

He was totured by us for an "official" confession.

I have to be getting trolled here, no one is this stupid.

There is no way you actually believe that torturing/detaining children until they confess to crimes against america (even when no one sees them do it) is anything but an atrocity.

[Leif]

He threw a grenade at American troops in wartime in a war zone. And you still think I'm a big racist? He doesn't get Miranda rights and a speedy trial for participating in a war.

I actually think Arabs are kinda hot - but that's another discussions.

He was told by afghan police that they would kill him and his family if he didnt confess.

He was totured by us for an "official" confession.

What? You think the Afghans were looking for a fall guy to impress the Americans? Couldn't they have picked a more convincing terrorist?

Even if that were the case, what would you propose to do with the kid?

[Skjie]

Why is everything about race to you people? He threw a grenade.

Here's the thing, the law says he didn't. Imagine a past where he hadn't been tortured by the Afganis before being given to the US. Thus, we can assume he wouldn't have confessed to anything. Thus, he wouldn't have been jailed?

Producing a confession under torture is illegal.
Imprisoning a child is illegal.

[Demosthenes11]

And if he was a white kid in the suburbs you'd be just as outraged as we are, but that's a moot point because instead of being held for 6 years without a trial he'd have been, at the very least, brought to trial and at worst, put until juvenile detention until his record was expunged at 18.

Seriously, stop pretending your patriotism is anything but racism.

edit: and if you think he'll just be magically "released" anytime soon you're deluding yourself

this isn't racism it's stupidity lol. stop this crusade about it being about race when it's clearly because leif is ... leif

[Atreides]

He threw a grenade at American troops in wartime in a war zone. And you still think I'm a big racist? He doesn't get Miranda rights and a speedy trial for participating in a war.

I actually think Arabs are kinda hot - but that's another discussions.


What? You think the Afghans were looking for a fall guy to impress the Americans? Couldn't they have picked a more convincing terrorist?

Even if that were the case, what would you propose to do with the kid?

ITT: Leif supports torturing children because he's harboring secret homosexual pedophilic tendencies towards arab pre-teens

[Kuya]

Let me reiterate, for people like guitarman.

Bush's military commissions charged him on 2007. 6 years after they held him. 6 years with no trial to proove he was innocent. The commissions ruled that evidence obtained through torture were allowed, this is the primary reason why these courts were called shams. It wasn't until the Boumediene V. Bush case that the Supreme Court established 5-4, against the Bush administration's position, that terrorist suspects do have a right to habeas corpus, and this was in 2008, exactly when the civilian justice system got involved and evidence starting rushing in that Jawad was in fact innocent.

This meant that the Bush administration blocked civilian courts from looking at cases because in said cases they were using torture to pull information out of suspects, even if the suspects were innocent. This was unconstitutional. This meant that they broke the law. And currently the Obama administration is pursuing the same legal argument that these prisoners do not have a right to habeas corpus and claiming that they can detain these prisoners indefinitly without proving that they are guilty first.

What guitarman does not seem to understand is that the courts could have proven him innocent years ago, because the evidence was obtained through torture (which the Bush administration insisted was legal), evidence was obtained that the kid did not throw the grenade (which was only found out via the civilian courts and subsequent investigations because the military commissions were not interested in investigating a thing), and finally the witnesses that the government claimed saw him toss the grenade were never found bringing into question whether they existed at all and this was only found out after the Supreme Court rejected the Bush administration's argument that the prisoners cannot have habeas corpus.

The issue was that the Bush administration never cared about investigating this thoroughly and letting the civilians courts get involved, because if they did, then they would have found out that the witnesses did not exist. And the Obama administration still wants to use evidence obtained from torture and hold the kid (who is not a kid anymore) in prison.

[Leif]

Here's the thing, the law says he didn't. Imagine a past where he hadn't been tortured by the Afganis before being given to the US. Thus, we can assume he wouldn't have confessed to anything. Thus, he wouldn't have been jailed?

Producing a confession under torture is illegal.
Imprisoning a child is illegal.

He doesn't get a lawyer. He was taken from the battlefield. What defines "torture" isn't even clear. Whether or not it is illegal when carried out overseas or by people not working for the USA is unclear. You can play by the Obama manuscript and say that it is, but then you end up hating Obama too like Kuya who seems to hate just about everything about America.

Now we can't put children in prison because it's "illegal"? What kind of amazing crack are you smoking?

Leif supports torturing children because he's harboring secret homosexual pedophilic tendencies towards arab pre-teens

Yeah. That's it, baby! S&M with kids! All right!

[Kuya]

Furthermore, the guy who was brought in to prosecute Jawad, was so disgusted with the whole thing and the lack of evidence that HE demanded that he be released but the Bush administration refused:

Suffice to say, Jawad's chief prosecutor at Guantanamo -- the Bronze-Star-recipient Lt. Col. Darrel Vandeveld, who since 9/11 has served in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Africa -- became so repelled by the treatment to which Jawad was subjected, by the fact that virutally all of the evidence against him was severely coerced, and by the fact that there is "no credible evidence" to justify his detention, that he first demanded that Jawad be released, then, when Bush officials refused, unsuccessfully demanded to be relieved of his duty to prosecute, and then finally resigned. He has now become one of the key witnesses in Jawad's habeas proceeding, and you can (and should) read Lt. Col. Vandeveld's Sworn Declaration in Support of Jawad's Habeas Petition here. In Paragraph 2, he writes:

This is so illegal and corrupt that it is mind boggling.

Worst of all, Lt. Col. Vandeveld explains that he began to realize the grave injustice of prosecuting Jawad as he discovered long-concealed evidence proving just how brutal and continuous the abuse of Jawad has been, and how virtually all of the evidence against him was suspect at best and almost certainly was unreliably coerced.