King's Justice vs Raging Rush

[Starr]

lol Yugl you are so fucking boring, your pathetic little digs do not effect me. Stop posting in this damn thread, you are wrong. You were stupid to try and stop the thread on the first page, look at it now, 6 pages with some great math and help with gear sets. That guy who says he thinks KJ is better under Bergressor knows how? Not like he would care enough to do the math when he doesn't play the job. Keep crying that you were wrong and now you have fuck all to fall back in but "waah Starr".

[Ultimagi]

Too lazy to read through 7 pages of what I'm sure is a very epic debate. I believe in a party with a Dragoon or a Monk, King's Justice is better if only for the skillchain damage.

[Flokk_9]

What Ultimagi said. Also agreed that KJ doesn't get enough credit for closing light.

But yeah, neither is patently superior to the other in my experience. There's never a time when I'm just using one or the other, it's just something that I gauge on the fly based on the mob in front of me, me tp, my party, and my buffs. And it's a rare day that I'm not tanking whatever's in front of me based on sheer damage output. Not sure what the point is of a poll that doesn't allow for a shit is situational option, since that's clearly the case here.

[Starr]

Well the quote that got me going was just as ignorant:

Using RR at all with a strong STR set is a bit outdated. It's a great weaponskill but you should stick to KJ or MT in most situations.

RR would be better if you're getting rogue's roll or something, but who rolls that?

I originally tried to be unbiased (I think they are pretty much even but RR slightly better) but then people kept saying KJ onry which is clearly wrong so the thread continued.

[Max™]

I'd say they're more like RR and SC, you wouldn't be raging rushing demons in Xarc, or if your LS was doing old school style /Thf SATA WS sky gods, you're going to be wanting the 1~2k single hitter.... which falls way behind for easier stuff.

KJ is somewhere in the middle, it really splits the difference between RR and SC, while never really sucking with a good gear set, but it REALLY depends on buffs from my experience... which, unsurprisingly, has been backed up with math and parses.

RR does indeed rape faces left and right, but I wouldn't skip KJ and SC, and I wouldn't stop carrying gear for them on War, if just for the Light/Dark options.

[Masamune]

I'd say they're more like RR and SC, you wouldn't be raging rushing demons in Xarc, or if your LS was doing old school style /Thf SATA WS sky gods, you're going to be wanting the 1~2k single hitter.... which falls way behind for easier stuff.

KJ is somewhere in the middle, it really splits the difference between RR and SC, while never really sucking with a good gear set, but it REALLY depends on buffs from my experience... which, unsurprisingly, has been backed up with math and parses.

RR does indeed rape faces left and right, but I wouldn't skip KJ and SC, and I wouldn't stop carrying gear for them on War, if just for the Light/Dark options.

Exactly my mentality too when playing war.

As for the parse i was talking about earlier after my mathy post, there it is :

Set used (WAR/sam Gcolis-TP gears only for all parse duration):
Perdu/claymore/FireBomblet
AskarZuch/FortTorque
Haub+1/DuskHands
Amemet+1/SwiftBelt/ByakkoPants/AresFeet
Brutal/Assault Ears
Rajas/Ulthalam Rings

STR 104
DEX 95
VIT 80
GAskill 291(including GAmerits4)
Att 446-750
Accu 417
Berserk3/DA4/Savagery4/crit4/str5
Hasso/Retaliation 97% (a few Seigans @ critical moments but thats it)

Calculated stats :
DA19%/StoreTP21%
Crit rate 15%
WS TP return avg 18.7%
Typical WS TP readied @ 112% (6-hits build)

This parse were done through 2 meripos, so a bit of discrepancy could have occured due to bards differently merited minuets, consistency of songs up or not, etc...
but at least no Dia, WSd asap @ 100% TP reached, as less random shit as i could...
In essence, this parse werenot destined to be analyzed for WSs, but for melee dot (thats why all done in TP gears only), but i thought that could still be interesting for this thread for those interested.
P.S.: i have also another one for war/nin @ Gcolis and THF/nin solo @ Lcolis, and gonna do one of these days a last one with FortAxe.

Feel free to discuss.

[Yugl]

lol Yugl you are so fucking boring, your pathetic little digs do not effect me. Stop posting in this damn thread, you are wrong. You were stupid to try and stop the thread on the first page, look at it now, 6 pages with some great math and help with gear sets. That guy who says he thinks KJ is better under Bergressor knows how? Not like he would care enough to do the math when he doesn't play the job. Keep crying that you were wrong and now you have fuck all to fall back in but "waah Starr".

An entire post dedicated to my post. Are you sure you aren't affected or do you always bitch this much?

1. I think it's pathetic that you would make a thread just to fight people that say WSs are situational. Even Thorny acknowledged on the first page that in high attack situations, KJ will out do RR (Which for Einherjar isn't unreasonable if doing BRD rotations). I think most of us (Except you of course) are in concurrence with the idea of changing WS based on the situation instead of sticking with *one* WS for Merit/Einherjar/Dynamis/Salvage/Other crap. Instead of rampaging other people's posts with "No" or "You're an idiot", you might want to take the time to actually prove them wrong. It's funny how *most* of the trolling in this thread is accomplished by yourself, and the only excuse you have is "Oh I have 75WAR!". The qualifications you set forth for people to take part in discussion are irrelevant to yourself, and you look like a damn hypocrite when you suggest that they're necessary.

2. If you want to prove a point, why would you ask for math on WSs in an *unbuffed* situation?

3. The *real* reason this thread was made was to fight KH users from this thread/post: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/78671...ml#post2947391

4. Math? We have seven pages of this thread and maybe 5 posts regarding the math. Most of it you disregard and the other half is Thorny who does check the sticky threads and is someone you could have PMed. Why didn't you? Again, attack thread.

5. You throw around the "You're wrong!" statement as if you've made some big point. What exactly is wrong? Are you suggesting that a citing is wrong? Are you suggesting that this type of question couldn't have been handled in the Randomest question thread (Which from the turn out of the thread, no one but an idiot would deny)? Again, nothing but fighting Starr.

Anymore 12yr old insults, or are you done trying to make up for your short comings? Emphasis on short.

[Plow]

getting away from the mass asshattery for a moment:


What's the general consensus if Fafhogg loot is out of the picture? I.E. no ebody, no n.head/legs.

Other than "why are you playing war without fafhogg loot," what direction are people preferring then?

Gear all out for KJ with the best STR/Att and reasonable acc?

Or is it better still be fucking with a dex build, i.e. hollow, dahak's, ancient, thunder ring when needed to cross 117, etc?

I figure dahak's + byakko's can cover the dex difference, but you're still looking at huge str/att losses.

Can that be worth it in the situations where RR would be better?

Or just go all out on a KJ build and trust it? Freeing up ares/aurum body etc. with the mass acc on kupo helm and not thinking about giving up gorget to cover a crit tier or a mediocre ring yada yada.

[Yugl]

getting away from the mass asshattery for a moment:


What's the general consensus if Fafhogg loot is out of the picture? I.E. no ebody, no n.head/legs.

Other than "why are you playing war without fafhogg loot," what direction are people preferring then?

Gear all out for KJ with the best STR/Att and reasonable acc?

Or is it better still be fucking with a dex build, i.e. hollow, dahak's, ancient, thunder ring when needed to cross 117, etc?

I figure dahak's + byakko's can cover the dex difference, but you're still looking at huge str/att losses.

Can that be worth it in the situations where RR would be better?

Or just go all out on a KJ build and trust it? Freeing up ares/aurum body etc. with the mass acc on kupo helm and not thinking about giving up gorget to cover a crit tier or a mediocre ring yada yada.

FFXIGEAR.com

If a Taru, you can reach RR crit rates on Bird-like mobs (Aka where Crit caps at 117 DEX). Add 38 ACC since you're using Mog+WS Gorget+Full merits (Maybe).

[Plow]

FFXIGEAR.com

If a Taru, you can reach RR crit rates on Bird-like mobs (Aka where Crit caps at 117 DEX). Add 38 ACC since you're using Mog+WS Gorget+Full merits (Maybe).

Well as an elf that leaves me at 114, but I can swap out the legs for haidate which lets me go with a better ring and be "ok." (loss of 1 str and 2 da, ish, depending on augments.)

Does this seem worth it, though? Especially if you can get acc high enough with kupo helm to not need acc/dex body for KJ?


I feel so dumb asking questions on the "well if you don't have the best gear" level here. ><

[Yugl]

Well as an elf that leaves me at 114, but I can swap out the legs for haidate which lets me go with a better ring and be "ok." (loss of 1 str and 2 da, ish, depending on augments.)

Does this seem worth it, though? Especially if you can get acc high enough with kupo helm to not need acc/dex body for KJ?


I feel so dumb asking questions on the "well if you don't have the best gear" level here. ><

FFXIGEAR.com

Haidate should be there (Used old FFXI set and forgot to change some of the pieces). As I said, it should win out on merit like mobs. The real debate is whether it's worth it on tougher mobs (Northernland Hydra/Demons). For that, most agree on KJ.

[Starr]

An entire post dedicated to my post. Are you sure you aren't affected or do you always bitch this much?

1. I think it's pathetic that you would make a thread just to fight people that say WSs are situational. Even Thorny acknowledged on the first page that in high attack situations, KJ will out do RR (Which for Einherjar isn't unreasonable if doing BRD rotations). I think most of us (Except you of course) are in concurrence with the idea of changing WS based on the situation instead of sticking with *one* WS for Merit/Einherjar/Dynamis/Salvage/Other crap. Instead of rampaging other people's posts with "No" or "You're an idiot", you might want to take the time to actually prove them wrong. It's funny how *most* of the trolling in this thread is accomplished by yourself, and the only excuse you have is "Oh I have 75WAR!". The qualifications you set forth for people to take part in discussion are irrelevant to yourself, and you look like a damn hypocrite when you suggest that they're necessary.

2. If you want to prove a point, why would you ask for math on WSs in an *unbuffed* situation?

3. The *real* reason this thread was made was to fight KH users from this thread/post: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/78671...ml#post2947391

4. Math? We have seven pages of this thread and maybe 5 posts regarding the math. Most of it you disregard and the other half is Thorny who does check the sticky threads and is someone you could have PMed. Why didn't you? Again, attack thread.

5. You throw around the "You're wrong!" statement as if you've made some big point. What exactly is wrong? Are you suggesting that a citing is wrong? Are you suggesting that this type of question couldn't have been handled in the Randomest question thread (Which from the turn out of the thread, no one but an idiot would deny)? Again, nothing but fighting Starr.

Anymore 12yr old insults, or are you done trying to make up for your short comings? Emphasis on short.

1. Just trying to save you some time and effort, you are trying extemely hard to get at me yet continuously fail. I was on of the first to say they are situational and not to use both and have said it multiple times. I have shown many people the error of their ways in this thread so what the fuck you are on about I have no clue. People with WAR levelled that have both WS and good gear swaps are the only people who should really have a relevant opinion on the weaponskills.

2. Did I really? Please quote me or are you babbling bullshit again? Or are you talking about the point where I asked for my gear sets in particular and mentioned that I did not ever have 2 Minuet because I wanted the math to prove me right that I did find RR better and oh shit, it fucking did because I am right.

3. No, that post alone would not have made me question it enough to make a thread about it, what Neo said confused me and it has been proven wrong.

4. The only relevant math I have seen is from Thorny, I am in the wrong for pointing out when math is completely wrong and irrlevant? I don't think I am, I'm trying to give people the right idea here and not confuse them. I did not make the thread to "attack" anyone, I wanted to prove to myself (which I have) that I found RR better because I haven't played in a while. The first and the majority of the "attacking" done in this thread is you against me, and for what? You have nothing constructive to say, you tried to in your last couple of posts cus I called you out on being a whiny little bitch.

5. You cry and cry because you thought the thread was pointless but got shown it was well worth making, many, many of the people who posted in this thread would not have posted in the Random Question thread so I got the result I desired. You had zero reason to post in this thread other than to try and attack me because you see me as a threat or something, I have no fucking clue.

I'm done when you are, I'm a better player than you and I am smarter than you so continue with your pointless blabber at me all you like, you haven't got shit to stand on.

[Jeryhn]

Your understanding based on what if you have never levelled or played WAR?

Because, you know, its impossible for anyone who's never leveled a melee job to 75 (oh noes!) to take an interest when he merits with WARs, and asks them "Hey, what do you think about KJ?", and gets them to tell him about it.

Get over yourself, faggot. I'm not here to argue for or against you.
I was simply agreeing with that poster based on what my understanding was, which is based on information I've heard from others more knowledgeable in the subject than I. I could truly give a shit about melee damage (beyond trying to contribute in a helpful matter to the thread), because its my Cures and Hastes that are going to keep a chain going or a WAR alive in an event, not your lolweaponskills.

[Knyghtmayre]

The argument of WAR on birds doing anything but Penta Thrust is completely moot and worthless. (Set used (WAR/sam Gcolis-TP gears only for all parse duration): Perdu/claymore/FireBomblet). Carry on with pointless bitching and neglecting math, this is quite a hilarious read tbh.

[Jeryhn]

C'mon man, how many of your posts were pointless bitching too?

The real question is: Would they be more or less than yours?

[Tsuko_Asura]

The argument of WAR on birds doing anything but Penta Thrust is completely moot and worthless. (Set used (WAR/sam Gcolis-TP gears only for all parse duration): Perdu/claymore/FireBomblet). Carry on with pointless bitching and neglecting math, this is quite a hilarious read tbh.

Its about time someone brought this up.

[Ksandra]

keep this ontopic, and keep personal shit out of here.

[Starr]

Thread is not and never was about birds, no derails into Polearm.

[Knyghtmayre]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/73201-war-polearm.html

Edit: oh, nice edit starr

[Starr]

Only tried it once with Fridell, my gear was:
TP FFXIGEAR.com 91% Accuracy as the parser showed.
WS FFXIGEAR.com 95% capped Accuracy
Fridell tried it with me and we agreed that Great Axe was stronger at the time but hey let's not derail, it isn't going to do anything constructive.

Edit: nice thread tho, Orson is the man there

Edit2: actually was after I sold Cuch so change backs to Foragers, Acc was 87% Aggressor down and 95% Aggressor up averaged at 91% melee acc.