King's Justice vs Raging Rush

[Ferien]

oh yeah I used Claymore for RR and Pole Grip for KJ, RR is Byakko's Haidate and Warwolf Belt and KJ is Warrior's Stone and Warrior's Cuisses

What about the rest of your gear?

[Masamune]

Starr can you develop these parses please ?

ie post yur gears + one parse for each Gcoli level (assuming its @ Birds camp?)
for this use the filter button @ top of KParser window Gcoli lvl82 = 144 exp, lvl81 = 128exp. Since yu got corsair roll, yu can also use Custom Mob selection to get ALL mobs of same level.

Asking this to get correct average, posting average on ALL mobs isnot conclusive enough. and imnot talking about chaos roll which is giving random attack values ....

Also were Dia used ? if yes then even worse if Dia werenot applied before EVERY WS.
Did you save yur TP returns and TP used for each WS in "Chat" tab ?

I know it's asking "a lot", but needs a minimal rigor when trying to prove a point (it's this topic goal right ?), espceially when those 2 WSs show such little differences on average.

[Ferien]

Starr can you develop these parses please ?

ie post yur gears + one parse for each Gcoli level (assuming its @ Birds camp?)
for this use the filter button @ top of KParser window Gcoli lvl82 = 144 exp, lvl81 = 128exp. Since yu got corsair roll, yu can also use Custom Mob selection to get ALL mobs of same level.

Asking this to get correct average, posting average on ALL mobs isnot conclusive enough. and imnot talking about chaos roll which is giving random attack values .... Also were Dia used ? if yes then even worse if Dia werenot applied before EVERY hit.

Unless he was spefically using WS based on mob level and DRK roll values, I think it's safe to assume it's even and level it out. Also, with COR roll's randomness you wouldn't be able to filter mobs by exp given anyway.

That being said, Starr, your averages are low, given the buffs. As I said earlier, I consistently averaged above or just under ~1000 without all the requisite DEX, so I'm curious what your WS sets were for both. Don't want to just blame it on Taru vs Elvaan until I know everything.

[Starr]

@Masamune
I don't know what you wanna know, I started parsing with RR and did 40 WS using TP as soon as I felt was right (I never WS under about 18% of a mobs HP to not lose hits and damage) and I used Berserk and Aggressor every time they were up, I also purposely waited til Berserk and Aggressor recast hit 0 and I used them to change to KJ so that the parse was absolutely fair and even. Is there a way I can attach the parser file to a post for people to download as with images?

@Ferien, I have posted them before but here you go:
Raging Rush: FFXIGEAR.com (1 DEX short of dDEX cap)
King's Justice: FFXIGEAR.com

I was really was disappointed with the averages myself, I have no idea why it was but I just felt generally weak that party. I have another parse of myself at Nyzul Mamools doing an average RR of 1015 with just Fighter's Roll which is shit tons better than Chaos Roll in any situation but the COR was obviously retarded as it was WAR SAM SAM front line.

[Starr]

Unless he was spefically using WS based on mob level and DRK roll values, I think it's safe to assume it's even and level it out. Also, with COR roll's randomness you wouldn't be able to filter mobs by exp given anyway.

Oh I see what he was trying to say lol, I did not try and use RR on lv81 GC and KJ on lv82 GC or anything stupid like that(not that there's any way to even be able to do that), I did not try to influence the parse either way in any way at all. I did 41 RR then 40 KJ, both were started with ALL JA timers at 0. There is no way anyone can logically scrutinize that parse as it was as fair as possible.

edit: no dia2, probably why average was so low

[BattlescarredShogun]

That was a Very close parse.


The high end RR's put the average in its favor.

Good shit.

[Arximiro]

I would use pole grip even with RR, but that's just me. And why no Gorgets but an Ebody? Cuch Mantle would also be an improvement for your RR macro, but again that is just personal preference.

[Starr]

I would use pole grip even with RR, but that's just me. And why no Gorgets but an Ebody? Cuch Mantle would also be an improvement for your RR macro, but again that is just personal preference.

1. Why?
2. I am lazy but gorgets are irrelvant to the topic at hand so post me in the gimp thread or something.
3. 1% Critical Hit Rate, 1 STR Vs 15 Attack? You could be right but still doesn't matter.

I will test 100% RR critical hit rate when I have time.

[Arximiro]

For 1, because you lose a lot of DOT using Claymore probably. Maybe better RR's in the end though, but it doesn't seem worth it since DA's on RR are pretty epic also. As far as Cuch, it also has 8acc and every hit after the first doesn't get a crazy acc boost.

I use Ares Body when Agg is up though so my situation is a little different. If I had Ebody I would probably give Foragers another shot. I'm not gonna post you in the gimp thread, I was jw why you didn't have gorgets if you play a DD job seriously.

Thanks for doing the tests, I don't have KJ so seeing that RR came out on top makes me happy.

[Thunder]

Shouldn't you have parsed KJ with berserk/agg vs RR with berserk/agg?

I thought everyone for KJ agreed that you use it with berserk/agg up and RR when it's down.

[Starr]

Well I don't think you would lose DAMAGE from using the Claymore but Pole Strap is supposed to work out at +1.85% WS frequency meaning it could beat Claymore sure, that was honestly the first time I had ever used it. I have capped accuracy in that parse, the 8 accuracy is irrelevant and there is nowhere left for me to lose accuracy to gain STR/DEX/Attack really.

Don't, you can still do well with RR critical hit rate with Haub/Haub+1, I never bothered to get them when I first levelled WAR cus for ages it was, especially on BG, Gorget>PCC then PCC>Gorget then back to Gorget>PCC so I never bothered to get one til it was known for certain what the Accuracy value was but more recently I have just not bothered (I did not play Feb to August).

Still get KJ, for light if nothing else.

[Starr]

Shouldn't you have parsed KJ with berserk/agg vs RR with berserk/agg?

I thought everyone for KJ agreed that you use it with berserk/agg up and RR when it's down.

Hmm I could if you really, really want me to.

A couple of people said it with nothing to support the statement.

[Oulanbator]

Thanks for parsing.

oh yeah I used Claymore for RR and Pole Grip for KJ.

This is a surprising choice. The Pole grip is pretty much the base Tp grip for warrior, the one players are using all the time. The claymore grip is barely used.

Claymore probably helped RRush damage a bit, but it also have effects on two other things: your regular melee dps and the frequency of your WSes.
The damage from added critical hits may even the damage from double attacks for regular melee hits (or may not), but the double attack speeds up your TPing, resulting in more WSes.

It could be interesting to parse the melee dps of the two grips (excluding weaponskills) to find out which one is better. After this, you could parse the two weaponskills with the grip that gives the higher dps.

I wonder if RR would get better results than KJ if you used Pole grip for both. And I wonder if your overall damage wouldn't be better with Pole Grip and KJ, even with slightly weaker WS numbers, because you would do more WSes.

Big numbers are cool, but you have to look at the whole picture of your damage (Ws + number or ws + melee damage) to find if it's better to use one weaponskill or the other.

[Ferien]

No gorget would explain why both averages were so low. Besides that, only problem is that 40 isn't going to give you an ideal average, especially when dealing with COR rolls (assuming you did what, 15~20 minutes of each? There's a lot of potential variance with only 6~8 numbers rolled and it could easily account for a 60 damage difference if the RR set had an 11 or 4 in it and the KJ set didn't, but since we don't know when the COR rolled what I'll leave it be).

Also, disagree with you on WAR vs DRK roll, but that's a different story altogether.

[Thunder]

Really, really, want you to! :D

That parse sure proves the retards who say KJ > RR without proof. But it doesn't answer the thread because people can still say that KJ > RR with berserk/agg up.

[BerenTebogo]

The bottom line is that Gondo-Shizunori is easy as hell to get and unless you have a Bravura you'll get better results overall from putting a tiny bit of effort into a dedicated penta WS set and 6hit.

Honestly, KJ seems to be best in Dyn + Ein + high ATT buffs and RR seems to be best in situations where you aren't buffed as much. If the end-all be-all of this test is based on Coilibri get a polearm and shut the hell up, everyone.

My ACC has been more than capped on Colibri for a while now and I recently went to MJSP and parsed an annoying 90% ACC. Never an excuse not to have Cuchulain's. Game doesn't stop when you leave Bhaflau Thickets.

[Starr]

The bottom line is that Gondo-Shizunori is easy as hell to get and unless you have a Bravura you'll get better results overall from putting a tiny bit of effort into a dedicated penta WS set and 6hit.

Honestly, KJ seems to be best in Dyn + Ein + high ATT buffs and RR seems to be best in situations where you aren't buffed as much. If the end-all be-all of this test is based on Coilibri get a polearm and shut the hell up, everyone.

My ACC has been more than capped on Colibri for a while now and I recently went to MJSP and parsed an annoying 90% ACC. Never an excuse not to have Cuchulain's. Game doesn't stop when you leave Bhaflau Thickets.

No.

Why? I posted a parse with MINUET 4 and CHAOS ROLL, my attack was massive with Yellow Curry Buns yet I still parsed RR higher. I will parse again on Mamools, we only use Greater Colibri as a base because they are as constant with Defense/VIT/Evasion/AGI as possible to give a good example.

MJSP is 90% Accuracy due to Blind, Wind Wall, Lurkers, Infiltrator's Utsusemi and Warm Up Evasion, not because you don't have capped Accuracy on all but Lurkers with Marinara Pizza+1, which you will if you equip Optical Hat etc for example, or because they don't use annoying moves.

[Ferien]

Honestly, KJ seems to be best in Dyn + Ein + high ATT buffs and RR seems to be best in situations where you aren't buffed as much. If the end-all be-all of this test is based on Coilibri get a polearm and shut the hell up, everyone.

This seems the most likely case, since crits are going to be more profound without atk buffs on. That being said, this set had min4 and drk roll, so *shrug*

[Masamune]

No gorget would explain why both averages were so low. Besides that, only problem is that 40 isn't going to give you an ideal average, especially when dealing with COR rolls (assuming you did what, 15~20 minutes of each? There's a lot of potential variance with only 6~8 numbers rolled and it could easily account for a 60 damage difference if the RR set had an 11 or 4 in it and the KJ set didn't, but since we don't know when the COR rolled what I'll leave it be).

Also, disagree with you on WAR vs DRK roll, but that's a different story altogether.

Thank you Ferien, exactly what my post meant.

in other words, dont use parses with random shit that could be controlled otherway, to prove rigorously a point. here should have used BRDx2 no cor at all.

As for the level of mobs parsed, i said about that because lvl81 dont have same stats as lvl82, notably def.

and last point i was saying, the tp used, ok starr said he had to hold tp when mob hp too low, but then another problem arise : remember KJ has its fTP rising with TP, while RR crit rate rise with tp, so if let's say yur average RR were readied @ TP110% while KJ readied @ TP102%... get the idea ?. Solution: use Steelcyclone when mob's HP low, at least yu ll be sure yur parsed WSs will be ALL @ 100%.

It's only when yu control as much parameters rigorously yu can attempt to answer this topic question : "for a given mob RR or KJ better", for a significant sample size (lol@40WSs...)

[Thunder]

and last point i was saying, the tp used, ok starr said he had to hold tp when mob hp too low, but then another problem arise (offtopic i admit): since yu using Perdu, yur base dmg drop till next mob. Solution: use Steelcyclone when mob's HP low, at least yu ll be sure yur parsed WSs will be ALL @ 100%.

But he didn't post his overall damage while using KJ/RR, just the WSs.

Unless you think perdu's latent isn't, by default, active on all WSs.