King's Justice vs Raging Rush

[Thorny]

You're telling the KJ supporters to post parses to back-up their claims. But, looking at the current poll results, most people tend to the think that KJ is better. So, I'd say that the burden of proof lies on you, not the people supporting KJ. Why don't you show us some parse results that shows RR beating KJ?

why don't you read the math posted above, as 1.5 is a pretty reasonable pdif for dynamis/limbus/ein and a high end pdif for most single mob fights(JoL, tp burn kirin, etc).. which would make it favor RR even more <_<

[Mer]

i have pretty much the best possible gear for both WSs and still prefer RR unless i'm 300% 2hring

Care to share exactly what you're wearing? Curious how they compare to Starr's ideal setups.

[Starr]

You're telling the KJ supporters to post parses to back-up their claims. But, looking at the current poll results, most people tend to the think that KJ is better. So, I'd say that the burden of proof lies on you, not the people supporting KJ. Why don't you show us some parse results that shows RR beating KJ?

Don't have any anymore, in fact I haven't played in weeks either but if I ever come back I will be more than happy to reparse for you. I don't care what the poll says, I just added that for a bit more. Look at the math Thorny just posted (which says RR generally>KJ), let's have more of that.

[Pandum]

Care to share exactly what you're wearing? Curious how they compare to Starr's ideal setups.

they're listed in my ffxiah link in my sig, no recent pictures to post and i'm doing something atm so cant take ;(

[Starr]

Also Therin I am not telling just KJ people to post parses, I want anyone to show parses with both WS and their gear sets and buffs. The thread is non-biased cus I have not tried to say RR is better as a statement, I merely said for me it did and I have posted my sets in the relic thread. You are just making stupid statements with no back up that will be disproved.

[Starr]

i have pretty much the best possible gear for both WSs and still prefer RR unless i'm 300% 2hring

erm with Bravura I would change Ulth>Flame or Thunder depending on mob AGI and Assault Earring>Triumph or Pixie depending on mob AGI.

[Oulanbator]

Fuck yourself with your parses, some people asked you for simple questions.
Do you mind answering ?

[Seraphus]

I smell a youmad comin on

[Starr]

What questions would you like me to answer?
I don't have parses cus I deleted them like I deleted all my SS etc.

[Limlight]

its sort of a pick your poison. Ask therin i parse EVERYTHING my war does. Honestly They really even out. I can't honestly pick one and say "hey its just better" if I can hit dex cap I tend to use RR if I can't I go with KJ. Using this as my base for everything (and my parses to back it up) it works. I'm sorry I can't give you a clear defined answer. Thorny's math seemed spot on but for actual in event use and parses. They're just so bloody even.

[Oulanbator]

What questions would you like me to answer?

- Do you believe in crit bonus linked to tp ? Is there any test ? Where ?
- If you believe, do you think Martial Bhuj could be better than other GAxes by giving a huge crit bonus ?
- Are items increasing critical damage good for RR ?
- How/Why are heca subligar/Hachiru haidate better than Ares Flanchard ?

Thanks

[Ryuumaru]

As for what I think is better out of KJ and RR, well it's tough... I like how RR can crit, or how KJ can sometimes be consistent, and nuts...

More often than not though, I'll find myself using RR to experiment on the mob/nm/hnm.

- If you believe, do you think Martial Bhuj could be better than other GAxes by giving a huge crit bonus ?

Meh, I used one of these for awhile. Didn't notice too much of a difference between my RR's and KJ's amongst other wars in the shel who used different Gaxes. But I'd still rather use Perdu/Byakko for RR and KJ; which is why I ended up selling it(also needed moniez q_q).

Martial Bhuj, imo, is like the hagun of WAR, which means it's really only good for One hit weaponskills. If you have steel cyclone, and use WAR for HNMs, then you will notice M Bhuj's SC's usually land at a higher and more consistent rate.

[orson]

Martial Bhuj is completely overrated. I've never understood it's price tag guess it's just the rarity but I'm sure there's some people who think it's the best.

[Starr]

- Do you believe in crit bonus linked to tp ? Is there any test ? Where ?
- If you believe, do you think Martial Bhuj could be better than other GAxes by giving a huge crit bonus ?
- Are items increasing critical damage good for RR ?
- How/Why are heca subligar/Hachiru haidate better than Ares Flanchard ?

Thanks

I didn't see these asked but ok.

1. Yes of course but not at 100% IIRC? There was crit hit WS testing done by some guy who did the Accuracy testing but I'm not sure if RR was one of the WS tested.
2. No Martial is not worth the loss of D/Acc/Attack as far as I know.
3. Hmm I can imagine Zahak's Mail beating Adaman Hauberk at capped Accuracy but not below 90% at least. Hachiryu Haramaki erm losing 10 DEX is pretty much like losing 10% Critical Hit Rate at dDEX+40 so I doub't it can beat Adaman Hauberk for shit on RR.
4. Hmm... can't say they are for sure as shit is situational. I would like to see math of Ares vs Hachiryu and Warrior's Cuisses vs Hachiryu at capped accuracy.

[Therin]

Don't have any anymore, in fact I haven't played in weeks either but if I ever come back I will be more than happy to reparse for you. I don't care what the poll says, I just added that for a bit more.

ITT: I posted a poll to prove my point that RR > KJ but now that 65% of players who voted disagree with me, I don't care what the poll says anymore.

Look at the math Thorny just posted (which says RR generally>KJ), let's have more of that.

Thorny's math:

38% crit rate during RR needed to beat KJ.

Protip: You're not going to hit 38% crit rate on anything meaningful.

There's a theory (and there were some parses/experimental data that backed this up, posted by Searain I believe) that Raging Rush (and all critical weaponskills) at 100% TP gives roughly +10% critical hit rate. That means you need a STANDING 28% critical hit rate in your WS set to see RR outperform KJ. This may happen on something that you can break the crit cap on (Greater Colibri, for instance) but it WILL NOT happen on anything remotely high level, sorry. IF you believe that there is no critical hit rate bonus at 100% TP (which it seems that you do, judging from your latest post) then it tips the scales in the favor of KJ even more.

As I said before in the relic thread and like Limlight said on the last page, I can see RR outperforming KJ for someone with a very strong critical set (or perhaps a Mithra, race DOES prove to make a difference between Mithra/Taru and Elvaan in this case, some 10-15 DEX or more) or in a situation where you can hit high critical hit rate BUT for the purpose of saying which WS in most useful in all the above situations, it is most definitely KJ > RR.

[Aable]

Raging Rush FFXIGEAR.com
kings justice FFXIGEAR.com
Steel Cyclone FFXIGEAR.com


format is
food
buffs
event
[Hit/Miss]--{WS.Low/Hi}--{WS.Avg}

Pizza
Rolls: THF, WAR, SAM, DRK
Sings: March, Minuete
Einherjar TI
- King's Justice--[16/0]--[181/1757]--[1059.31]
- Raging Rush--[7/0]--[521/1345]--[849.14]

Pizza
Einherjar T1
Rulls THF WAR SAM DRK
SONGS: March, Minuet
- King's Justice--[16/0]--[402/1715]--[1059.37]
- Raging Rush--[3/0]--[405/792]--[603.00]

Mithkabob
Einherjar T1
Rulls THF WAR SAM DRK
songs: Brd DCed so none
- King's Justice--[20/0]--[410/1425]--[872.90]
- Raging Rush--[9/0]--[417/1085]--[800.67]
- Steel Cyclone--[3/0]--[269/947]--[647.00]


Pizza
EInherjar T2
Rulls THF WAR SAM DRK
SONGS: March, Minuet
- King's Justice-- [24/0]--[600/1604]--[917.25]
- Raging Rush--[3/0]--[568/1266]--[915.33]

Mithkabob
Dynamis - Valkurm Parse
Sogns: Marchx2
- King's Justice--[28/0]--[401/1779]--[877.57]
- Raging Rush--[16/0]--[287/1124]--[735.44]
- Steel Cyclone--[1/0]--[1234/1234]--[1234.00]

[Starr]

ITT: I posted a poll to prove my point that RR > KJ but now that 65% of players who voted disagree with me, I don't care what the poll says anymore

You're an idiot, can a mod see who voted which? I bet shit tons, the vast majority, of the voters not only don't even have WAR levelled but don't have good enough gear swaps to parse it. I also did in fact only add it so the thread wasn't just a thread, the result is irrelevant to the truth.

Also Thorny can you show me the average WS damage I would get with RR/KJ with no attack buffs (I only ever rolled with March March Fighter's Corsair's) with these gear sets on Greater Colibri?:
FFXIGEAR.com
RR

FFXIGEAR.com
KJ

With the attack shown including Meat Kabob, plus Acc/Attack from 8 merits, plus Berserk and Agg up 70% of the time. Remember 4 merits + 50 dDEX = 24% critical hit rate minimum. Swap in Cuch mantle if it will give a higher avg for either WS.

[Therin]

Also Thorny can you show me the average WS damage I would get with RR/KJ with no attack buffs (I only ever rolled with March March Fighter's Corsair's) with these gear sets on Greater Colibri?:

The more you post, the more I feel like you don't even understand what you're actually talking about. The only thing a gear set and stats will tell you is a theoretical maximum. You can't extrapolate an "average" from that, we don't know enough about the math behind the game for that. The only way to get an average is to go and parse one, and at this point I doubt many people are going to trust what YOU post from parses because you're probably going to inflate it just to prove a point.

I've seen one parse that showed RR beating KJ since this topic came up, and many, many, many parses showing that they are either nearly equal (within 10-20 damage of each other), or that KJ slightly beats RR (50-100).

This thread is quickly becoming borderline flame war, so under the new rules of advanced we should both watch what we're saying. I do feel like you need to go back and revisit your understanding of things. Your WAR gear is very good, and since you're a Taru, I'm not doubting that you'd either see them nearly equal or maybe even RR coming out on top in particular situations. That being said, you're being extremely egotistical about it and you need to realize that most people don't have the means to hit 28%+ crit rate in a WS set and therefore KJ will consistently win for them.

[Killkenny]

why don't you read the math posted above, as 1.5 is a pretty reasonable pdif for dynamis/limbus/ein and a high end pdif for most single mob fights(JoL, tp burn kirin, etc).. which would make it favor RR even more <_<

Did you read this post therin or are you just too focused on the person you're arguing with that you forgot the arguement.

[Zumi]

At bird camp I see better results with RR then KJ, on my war.