King's Justice vs Raging Rush

[Fridell]

This seems quite accurate. I used this set: FFXIGEAR.com, missing WS gorget, 0 GA merits, 0 STR merits, 3 Agg 3 Bers 4 DA, I pulled up an old parse:

Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Tubbers
 - Raging Rush             176848   100.00 %     189/0   100.00 %    274/1875   935.70

The 21.3 DMG discrepancy (probably far more even) can easily be attributed to lack of GA / STR merits, uncapped acc while agg is down, and the fact that I wasn't riding timers 100% perfectly.

Totally unrelated to this, but for reference TP gear was: FFXIGEAR.com

I assume this is on bird? My averge is around 880-890~ there and we have similar gear & same merits (or lack of them) but you have E-Body & Heca Feet while I use Haub+1 & Marine, seems those pieces affect just about how much I thought it would.

[Limlight]

some of these averages for birds seem really low to me, my last 3 bird parties i've had over 1k ws average. Wait nvm are those with only a single brd or cor and not brd/brd or brd/cor? If they are nvm.

[Limlight]

Thread showing Searain's test:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/51673...ml#post1803211

This could be useful. Tests show that Rampage does not have a critical hit bonus. If I were to wager a guess, I'd say Raging Rush is the same, though this is obviously a guess. As Valisk says, Raging Rush won't beat King's Justice unless you can guarantee at least 1 critical hit on your average Raging Rush, which is an assumption that only works out if your WS set has a standing critical hit rate of at least 30%, and it *will not* have that crit rate unless it has a critical bonus.

So really, the conclusion of the argument rests on whether or not Raging Rush has a critical bonus at 100% TP.

For the sake of argument, this is probably as close as you'll ever get to 30% critical hit rate (and therefore probably pretty close to the "optimal" Raging Rush set):

FFXIGEAR.com

That's capped accuracy (when you consider 8/8 merits and Sea Gorget bonus), plus 122 DEX which should cap your critical hit rate at 20%. 4% from merits and 6% from gear puts you at 30%. So, unless you have gear like that, it's probably better to use King's Justice (notice that 30% critical hit rate would require a Claymore Grip).

For comparison, I'd say this is your best King's Justice set:

FFXIGEAR.com

It seems to be just as I said before. If you can cap crit, RR should be better. If you can't (and you *can't* in most situations), KJ is better. All that math that has been posted so far are assuming you're fighting Greater Colibri, which are piss weak anyway.

Note: Those ffxigear.com shots are Elvaan M, which is what I am. If you switch to Mithra or Taru, you can probably lose the Toreador's Ring and use Flame instead. And I forgot to switch to the correct KJ gorget but you get the picture.

god just kill me if i have to carry around all that specific gear for RR. I'll stick to being gimp and using KJ <_<

[Neoex]

http://snd-ls.net/ss/brav.jpg
Pickup party, bird camp

No food, minuet/march,ranger/corsair roll.

Bravura, WS gear full hecatomb, foragers, flame/rajas,trimp/brutual, waist warwolf with aggressor war stone w/o agrresor, neck was corresponding gorget on all 3.

[PeaceNLove]

Sorry, but what are people trying to prove using the same gear set for both WSs?

[Neoex]

Sorry, but what are people trying to prove using the same gear set for both WSs?

sorry but its what I use?

[PeaceNLove]

Seriously? And you have a Bravura? You must be trollin'...

[Dooom]

If you're using the same sets for RR and KJ, you're not gonna do one WS justice (no pun intended). If you just take your RR set and use it for KJ, odds are your RRs will do better as you're geared for it (assuming you push for crits or whatever).

[Sifer]

Whyyyyyyyy

idk, its just what they used. had to check buffs in parser to find out lol.

EDIT: and yes, single cor for 1st pt (didnt even have ddrk in it) and single brd for 2nd (and march doesnt affect WS damage).

[Nameless]

Nothing he can do honestly since he doesn't have the best KJ setup, not like he has it and choose not to use it (I hope not).

Edit: if anything, he definitely geared a bit more toward KJ since he is not focusing on dex a whole lot. Then again, we all know that RR is better for bird since it is easy to cap critical there. So what's new? For places where you can't do that, KJ will be better.

[hagun]

People are using DEX instead of all out STR on RR and they wonder why KJ is doing more damage. To each his own I suppose.

[Limlight]

People are using DEX instead of all out STR on RR and they wonder why KJ is doing more damage. To each his own I suppose.

whut?

[Sifer]

Nothing he can do honestly since he doesn't have the best KJ setup, not like he has it and choose not to use it (I hope not).

Edit: if anything, he definitely geared a bit more toward KJ since he is not focusing on dex a whole lot. Then again, we all know that RR is better for bird since it is easy to cap critical there. So what's new? For places where you can't do that, KJ will be better.

show us a parse then.

[Drunkenmonk]

i see alot of ppl suggesting zahak's over ebody for RR, does this have any merit? it just seems....wrong

[Therin]

i see alot of ppl suggesting zahak's over ebody for RR, does this have any merit? it just seems....wrong

If your accuracy is capped, then the accuracy on E.Body is irrelevant. So, you're looking at Attack+15 vs. Critical Hit Rate+3%, and for the specific purpose of RR, the Critical Hit Rate will likely benefit you more, because as we've concluded, you'll probably only be using RR on lower level monsters such as Greater Colibri where your attack is already so high that you're showing diminishing returns.

The trend seems to be that RR > KJ on anything that you can cap crit on, and if you can cap crit you're probably also capped on accuracy, so it does seem like Zahak's would be better than E.Body.

[hagun]

whut?

Why do people use DEX on RR at all? Has DEX been proven to significantly increase the critical hit rate of RR? I must have missed the trend, but I have never seen first hand with DEX increasing the damage of WS that have a natural critical hit rate. This goes all the way back to people using DEX for Rampage and it sucking compared to a Rampage outfitted with STR.

Where has it been proven that DEX will significantly increase the critical hit rate of a WS with innate critical ability?

[Sifer]

i see alot of ppl suggesting zahak's over ebody for RR, does this have any merit? it just seems....wrong

what increases your melee damage best increases your WS damage best (only exception is haste gear). critical hits dont suddenly become the determining factor because the ws CAN crit. If you think Zahak's mail increases your RR damage best then you should TP in it too.

short answer, it doesnt.

[hagun]

If your accuracy is capped, then the accuracy on E.Body is irrelevant. So, you're looking at Attack+15 vs. Critical Hit Rate+3%, and for the specific purpose of RR, the Critical Hit Rate will likely benefit you more, because as we've concluded, you'll probably only be using RR on lower level monsters such as Greater Colibri where your attack is already so high that you're showing diminishing returns.

The trend seems to be that RR > KJ on anything that you can cap crit on, and if you can cap crit you're probably also capped on accuracy, so it does seem like Zahak's would be better than E.Body.

Is this really true? I seriously doubt this is true. You can definitely see a difference in output damage between a person who eats meat versus a person who doesn't eat meat while Minuet is being played. Not to mention when you have Berserk+Warcry up. Now toss in Chaos roll and you see your damage continue to increase. Why are we assuming that attack is capped/near capped on colibri?

[Nameless]

show us a parse then.

A parse about what? that KJ will do better than RR at bird with the right equips? that's not my claim.

Edit: And to Hagun, how critical rate work is that the last few dex you add will significantly up your critical rate. At about 120 dex, every dex you add are likely going to add 1% to your critical hit rate until you cap (against bird only). That's why you either try to reach that point or you don't focus on it at all. Against higher lvl mobs, it is not practical to focus on dex due to the much higher AGI, making the higher str mode WS win out on damage.

[Sifer]

A parse about what? that KJ will do better than RR at bird with the right equips? that's not my claim.

Edit: And to Hagun, how critical rate work is that the last few dex you add will significantly up your critical rate. At about 120 dex, every dex you add are likely going to add 1% to your critical hit rate until you cap (against bird only). That's why you either try to reach that point or you don't focus on it at all. Against higher lvl mobs, it is not practical to focus on dex due to the much higher AGI, making the higher str mode WS win out on damage.

on higher level mobs you will need more acc, reducing your STR, and making raging rush get so much closer that even a 5% crit hit rate will make it average higher.