The Koran -- Serious business.

[Erza]

So if religion didn't exist no one would do any good right?

[Plow]

I'm sorry, did this conversation just become about monkeys with poo guns?

[zoobernut]

And no one would do bad either the world would be gray and boring and neutral without religion.

[Plow]

So if religion didn't exist no one would do any good right?

100% correct.


Of course, if religion didn't exist, no one would do any bad, either.




Right?


owned by zoob ><

[zoobernut]

HA! beat you to it. And the monkey/poo/gun sentence makes as much sense as this thread which was the point.

[Elvis]

Did anyone here say religion is 100% innocent?

For example, when Islam is brought up with relation to violence in the ME - people here like myself say it plays a role but it's not the focus.

You guys straw manning. But the point is that you just want us to say the religion is bad. You don't think about people who practice the religion and are not doing the things the extremists do.

And as to the Christian blah blah - there are Christian peace-keeper teams all over the world who function like a human rights NGO. Religion can inspire good. Perhaps it's been overall bad - but you're not going to get rid of it tomorow. So you have to work within the standards we have.

This doesn't mean you sing along 'We are the world' with 'the terrorists' but you can use interfaith discourse for example (this is kind of happening in Israel-Palestine in some instances).

Extremism is another issue. However you'll find more people willing to talk I think.

[Neosutra]

I'm saying that it is possible for these belief systems to coexist.

They are natural opposites. If by "coexist" you mean "destroy each other", then sure. Reason and Religion will always be in a constant battle for the minds of humanity.

And hey Plow, I heard David Koresh helped alot of people in his church through some tough life problems, guess that makes him a great guy. Why do people always focus on the murders and cults and brutal suicide/deaths of all of his followers!?

[Zalius]

That really seems to be the basis against all religious based violence and evils in the world is that the religion can always keep its proverbial hands clean because if people do something in the name of that religion it is not the religions fault if the religion did not specifically ask them to do it.

But that is like giving a monkey a gun and asking it to not fling poo at you. Of course it will fling poo to get its point across eventually. You really should just not give it the gun in the first place.

god you are fucking terrible at animal based metaphorical situation examples

[Elvis]

So if religion didn't exist no one would do any good right?

If religion didn't exist no one would do any bad right?

ZING

Someone please nuke this thread right now. Please 'end of days' this thread. For the love of GOD!

[Elvis]

They are natural opposites. If by "coexist" you mean "destroy each other", then sure. Reason and Religion will always be in a constant battle for the minds of humanity.

Well, I should say that they DO coexist. It's not perfect but it's clearly possible.

[zoobernut]

god you are fucking terrible at animal based metaphorical situation examples

Woosh. It was meant to not make sense...

[Neosutra]

Well, I should say that they DO coexist. It's not perfect but it's clearly possible.

I guess if you dont put in the word "peacefully" coexist, sure. I mean ya, cancer cells coexist within the human body.

[Correction]

Oh, but people and charities do good things without religion, they don't need religion to do good things.

On the other hand, whenever they do something bad, it's 100% religion's fault and indisputable evidence that religion should be abolished.


Do I have it right now?

Nearly, what needs to happen is a refined model for BG General Talk Madlibs, a kid-friendly 20 page book of Stupid Argument Templates.

Poster: {choose from wop, Vajira, guartz or type SPORTS THREAD for Tyche/Headspace/Miz/Aki/Cephius}
Topic: {choose from BGProfessional Services (including medical/girlfriend advice), random CNN.com story, Politics or Religion.}

Opening Post: blah blah blah {choose from Obama, Republicans, Swine Flu, Pacman Jones or your girlfriend} wurrrrrr uhahahahaw. In closing, {choose from ib4 statement, 'discuss' or 'I don't support terrorists, but' flippant remark}.

Opening 3 pages, choose from replies below =>

{Neo's reply}: I blame religion
{Random Spam Poster}: I blame gay black people and the mods.
{Leif's reply}: I blame obama
{Beckwin's reply}: I blame our lack of a socialist society
{guartz's reply}: There's a conspiracy here
{choose between tommygunz or thomassmith}: Bitches had it coming, more should have died.

50 GOTO 10

[Elvis]

They do exist peacefully in many instances. It's not all over the world of course. And there are plenty of non-religious ideologies that co-exist (but not peacefully) as well.

You are an expert of the superficial-argument Neo. Or should I say, 'point scoring' rhetoric.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwfne1aYA3g

[Erza]

question for ye faithful, thanks to Hubble telescope we know that the universe is shitbig and has completely dwarfed earth's place in it, if there is a God do you still believe he gives a shit about the earth or your prayers?

[zoobernut]

I think we had that discussion in the last religion thread Erza and some of us contend that there might be room in the universe or the possibility for a being that exists beyond our understanding, however we also came to the conclusion that this beings existence has no impact on us and doesn't matter anyway. It was quite a fun logical path to follow.

[Plow]

They are natural opposites. If by "coexist" you mean "destroy each other", then sure. Reason and Religion will always be in a constant battle for the minds of humanity.

Again, Neo, you absolutely epitomize what you hate so much. Do you not realize that what you just stated is the *exact* kind of downright evil rhetoric that leads to the biggest problems?

How are you any different in stating that religion and freedom cannot coexist than Osama bin Laden saying the exact same thing?

There are billions of religious people in the world that do not feel they have to fight for their religion to be "the" accepted religion. There are immeasurable number of persons who have attempted to spread their religion through being good, and kind, not through forcing their systems on others.


In all your "I am a beautiful snowflake" grandeur, you continue to label and categorize everyone who disagrees with you, and group them as an unreasonable mob attempting to force its views upon you. You know, *exactly* like you assume they're all doing towards you that makes you so angry in the first place.


No one is denying the presence of unreasonable religious fanatics. And you'd be an absolute fool to deny the existence of unreasonable fanatics outside religion.

And hey Plow, I heard David Koresh helped alot of people in his church through some tough life problems, guess that makes him a great guy. Why do people always focus on the murders and cults and brutal suicide/deaths of all of his followers!?

afk finding something good scientology groups have done to make a thread about as indisputable proof that all religions are entirely positive no matter what and any downsides are meaningless


I heard a couple hundred thousand people died in a nuclear bomb a while back, why do people always focus on the positives of nuclear physics?

[Neosutra]

They do exist peacefully in many instances.

Browser wouldnt load the YouTube, so maybe you answered this. But where would those instances be?

edit: And Plow, Ill cut it off with "shut the fuck up with the same bullshit you posted in the last thread" and have it apply to both of us. Not one of your points wasnt echoed 100 times in the last shit fest (and thrown back in your face).

[Elvis]

In our country. Do we have regular religious violence aimed at our scientific institutions? (Narrow question)

But do we have violence/disorder in our country with the actors being religion vs. science?

No we don't. That doesn't mean we don't have extremists who do carry out religious-inspired violence but those are fringe groups.

And no, one video isn't going to document this 'instance'.

I mean, it's just like all the fear-mongering that goes on during elections. We have standards and that's how we judge them. It's when we are beyond the threshold that we should become concerned.

Industrial countries like ours still have murder/corruption/blah. And by YOUR logic Neo, we can mention these instances of bad deeds and that's simply enough 'proof' to draw the conclusion that industrial countries are 'bad'. You have to work within realistic expectations. You make a thread about Islam to bash Islam - not to inform.

It's just like what people saw in Kuya (I disagree) - that he was making a thread whenever the US messed something up in Iraq.

Oh and btw, in Kuya's case he's much much more intellectually honest because he never said the entire abstraction known as 'America' was at fault here. He didn't blame our culture/etc. for what a component of our identity (the State) did.

You conflate.

[Neosutra]

In our country. Do we have regular religious violence aimed at our scientific institutions? (Narrow question)

But do we have violence/disorder in our country with the actors being religion vs. science?

No we don't. That doesn't mean we don't have extremists who do carry out religious-inspired violence but those are fringe groups.

Which country is "our country"? Assuming you are also in the US: What would you consider regular violence? Beating of gays, abortion clinic bombings, KKK, etc?

And I am more concerned with the massive political pressure from right wing groups to curve scientific research in this coungry (stem cell research, evolution, big bang cosmology). Are you really oblivious to the VERY active efforts of such organizations as the "discovery institute" and other quack areas? Does it not offend you that our schools have to go to court to determine wether they have to teach god in the classroom right next to evolution? Does it not offend you that breakthroughs in medicine/physics are limited by funding being cut by religious conservatives?

We dont have as many religious terrorist in this country, but they religious right do just as much harm via influencing policy and lobbying against progress that scares them.