The Koran -- Serious business.

[MrW]

Halalalalalalalalalala. Oh wait, I'm on the computer...




{Popeye's 5 piece (which is usually a 7 piece because they can't count) > Wendy's crispy chicken + McDonald's crispy chicken club (no mayo)}

[tyven]

i have noticed that popeyes often gives me a few too many pieces as well. god bless the education systems that churn out these minimum wage superstars.

[Bingbong]

remember when christian americans went around killing people who looked muslim after 9/11?

Actually, I don't... maybe you could provide some sources.

The part that bothers me is the lack of assistance from the "police" just watching this crap go down.
Either way, killing folks over books is about as stupid as humanity gets.

[ZarakiKujata]

Either way, killing folks over books is about as stupid as humanity gets.

spoilered for size.

Spoiler: show

http://scavenging.files.wordpress.co...arah-palin.jpg

I'll just leave this here.

[oldoldman]

There was one shooting IIRC where a Sikh died.

[Sepukku]

Why is it Kuya never posts in THESE threads, if you know what I mean?

[thomassmith]

Expecting Pakistan to do anything is a bit naive. This is a 3rd world country we are talking about.

[Elvis]

@Bingbong

There have been lots of threads like this. I think the last time something like this happened it was Christian converts in Africa setting some people on fire (witchcraft). The thread turned into a debate on Islam though I think.

A Sikh gas station attendant or owner was murdered by some dude who thought he was Muslim (twas' the turban).

The victim's name was Balbir Singh Sodhi.

During the presidential elections a mosque in Ohio (I think) was attacked w/ tear gas. No serious injuries. Then there was the pregnant Muslim chick who was stabbed in a court (she was there to sue her attacker for threateningly racial hatred and bigotry) recently.

BTW, purely on a superficial level - if we fill up our forum with these types of threads it does have an obvious psychological effect. We're physically seeing the forum cluttered with one type of subject-matter.

In that respect - I now understand the sandy-vaginaness about Kuya's threads.

So let's apply that standard to everything shall we? We can agree that these problems are real but that how we discuss them may overestimate or underestimate the problem. The representation of these subjects (taking a glance at the General section and seeing 'America yada yada yada Iraq' or 'Islam trolls Christians' filling up your screen) can be propagandistic.

Now, someone said in the recent Kuya thread that propaganda can be based on a truth. I agree. You can say something TRUE but at the same time you can be conveying that truth in an INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST way.

So for example, showing tons of threads like this (not saying that that happens) would have an obvious psychological effect on some people. I would be pissed - not because I'm Muslim but because I care about Israel-Palestine and Islam plays a big role in that conflict. There's a lot of Islam-bashing going on and it's not within the same context as Christian-bashing.

BTW - I'm probably reading too much into this thread. There are LOTS of crimes committed by other religious folk and in the name of their faith. We just don't see it on the news as much (relative to Islam). That's political.

There are also religious people (Catholics/Jews) who commit tons of crimes. I mean the Orthodox types. Recently a bunch of Orthodox Jews were busted for organ trafficking in the US - with connections to Israel. This was in the mainstream press but I don't know if it was on TV. I don't know the exact details either.

This blog tracks crimes within the Orthodox Jewish community (pedophilia mostly) - the distinction is that it's not about 'Jews' in a vague generalized sense. It's author is an ex-rabbinical student who gave up his pursuit of becoming a Rabbi in 2007. Long story short, he had a falling out w/ the faith. I think that if you were to read his blog you may get a propagandistic viewpoint of Judaism though.

FailedMessiah.com

I reference this blog for the same reason some of you were upset w/ Kuya. He may have been - from your perspective; I myself did not come to this conclusion - treating General as his own blog on American foreign policy. Kind of like how the ex-rabbinical student has a blog just on the crimes of the Orthodox Jewish community. The parameters are set and you'll get one type of blog entry or thread - right?

The blog I go to - Mondoweiss - is an Israel-Palestine thread. The author is Phillip Weiss, a Jewish journalist who used to work in the mainstream but left so that he could write whatever he wanted. He's an anti-Zionist and Leftist. It's the best blog on the Israel-Palestine conflict from a dissident's point of view.

Today he made a topic about something unrelated to I-P because he wanted to take a breather. He understood that parameters of content have been set - so it's important to take a breather every now and then to show people that he's not steeped in ideology. (I don't think Kuya is this way - but it may appear that way to those dissenters in the last thread he made.)

From the Mondoweiss blog entry I was referencing above:

http://mondoweiss.net/2009/08/lake-c...moving-in.html

http://mondoweiss.net/images/2009/09/coldn.jpg

This is a photo by Rob Buchanan, from the Adirondacks last week. What’s it doing on this site? Well I looked at the site this morning and noticed that almost every post has Israel in the headline. Too much Israel-Palestine-focus. I need to shift my eyes now and then, show folks we’re real human beings.

I don't want to imply that focusing on one subject may make us inherently biased. However, if our purpose is to open peoples' eyes up to a new point of view and to get them to think critically (and from our POV we think that in doing so, they will come to similar conclusions as us) - we need to take that breather. Rhetoric is important also.

Like I said, you can mention something true but it can be intellectually dishonest. I think when these types of threads are made - it very subtly dehumanizes the Islamic faith. I think that Failed-Messiah blog does the same to Judaism - even though the author is much more articulate than anyone here, myself included, and he makes plenty of distinctions.

[Cyn]

There are at least 8 less Christians in the world? Time to break out the bubbly.

[Neosutra]

Did you really just get upset that news like this was publisized because it would cause a bad reaction on the already bad perception of muslims Elvis? How about stop doing retarded mass murder/violent actions and end the bad publicity yourself?

[Akucaen]

Cyn has the right idea.

[Elvis]

Did you really just get upset that news like this was publisized because it would cause a bad reaction on the already bad perception of muslims Elvis? How about stop doing retarded mass murder/violent actions and end the bad publicity yourself?

You misunderstood my post.

First off, I am not upset with the subject matter of the thread. I am not upset this story is publicized.

I am upset with how it is presented. This is about relativeness. How the crimes of one faith (this includes people OF a faith committing crimes, if their faith defines them - and we saw this in a profound way with the Catholic priests and pedophilia) are covered as opposed to another.

My entire post was about perceptions. I went into great detail about this point. I gave examples about my own POV bias and referenced the political blog I admire the most taking an ideological 'breather' as it were.

I was not responding to the thread 'itself'. I was responding to Bingbong AND Seppuku.

Bingbong - because he asked about a source for the murder of a Muslim-looking man, post-9/11.

Seppuku (I did not specify I was responding to him tho) - because he said 'why doesn't Kuya post in these kind of threads'.

And that is my point. 'These' kind of threads are discussed here more often than let's say - pedophilia in the Orthodox Jewish community (superficial statement). I think Christians get it worse than Muslims but it's a different context.

You have a serious problem with reading comprehension if you think I'm upset with the CONTENT of the news article or the fact that it is news.

I'm specifically talking about the blog-like nature of certain political discussions in the General forum.

I stick to ONE thread when I post about Israel-Palestine.

Why? Because I know it would piss people off who get pissed off easy on the Internets if I physically made a new thread about each fucked up thing Israel does to the Palestinians.

I mean, I spelled this out CLEARLY in my post, Neo. I said that the physical perception of this forum section CAN give a person a propagandistic view of a particular topic if that topic is EVERYWHERE to be seen.

It's the same grievance people had against Kuya for his criticisms of American foreign policy. It wasn't that the content was disagreeable (although some were dissenting on the content, like Leif and guitarman I think) - it was the way the news item was presented.

Now, compare the way Kuya opened up discussion on that subject to the way this topic has been opened up. People have been much more facetious. I don't think Kuya was even trying to be funny - he was just using loaded language (even though I agree w/ his conclusions).

Again, I am not upset that this is news.

[Neosutra]

And I stated that the topic was "everywhere to be seen" because it happens "all the fucking time".

I didnt just misread you lol.

[Dimmauk]

Baron Cohen 'gets death threats over Bruno'

Sacha Baron Cohen is reported to have received death threats from a terrorist group over his latest film, Bruno.

The funnyman is claimed to have now taken precautions to protect himself and his family after a terrorist that he mocked in the film made threats against him.

His lawyers would not name the terror group responsible for the threats, but said that it was an organisation that "has claimed responsibility for recent terrorist attacks".

It has been suggested that the Palestinian Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade may be behind the threats.

In a scene in the film, members of the group are duped into getting their alleged leader Ayman Abu Aita to appear.

The Martyrs' Brigade said in a statement: "This was a dirty use of our brother Ayman and we don't accept that the name of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades is part of the movie. We reserve the right to respond in a way we find suitable."

The 37-year-old comedian has been forced to take serious security measures to protect himself and his family from a revenge attack after calling Al Quaeda leader Osama bin Laden a "dirty wizard or a homeless Father Christmas" in his recent fim

Serious business.

[Elvis]

And I stated that the topic was "everywhere to be seen" because it happens "all the fucking time".

I didnt just misread you lol.

Ok, so now we're talking about Islam again or about religious fanatics?

Would anyone here who bashed Kuya, be willing to retract their statements about his - in their perception - blogging of America's crimes in the ME in the General section?

Do you think there may be legitimate reasons for people to be upset with the constant focus - which IS ideological - on certain subjects and not others?

It could be massacres. Massacres we approve of (Israel 'defending itself' in Gaza) versus 'massacres' we do not approve of (Qassam rockets killing 12 people in 8 years leading up to Israel 'defending itself' in Gaza).

It doesn't even have to be religion. I know there's tons of problems in the ME and that Islam plays a role. However, I also know that the presentation of these stories plays a role in inciting hatred against Muslims. And if you check polls done on attitudes of 'the other' - Islamophobia is the number 1 hate-fest at the moment.

[Neosutra]

Pointing out other fanatics and radicals doesnt change the fact that Islamic extremists are a growing group of crazies over there, and I would be ashamed to be a Muslim these days. Take responsibility for your religion and start standing up to these people.

[Elvis]

Baron Cohen 'gets death threats over Bruno'

Sacha Baron Cohen is reported to have received death threats from a terrorist group over his latest film, Bruno.

The funnyman is claimed to have now taken precautions to protect himself and his family after a terrorist that he mocked in the film made threats against him.

His lawyers would not name the terror group responsible for the threats, but said that it was an organisation that "has claimed responsibility for recent terrorist attacks".

It has been suggested that the Palestinian Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade may be behind the threats.

In a scene in the film, members of the group are duped into getting their alleged leader Ayman Abu Aita to appear.

The Martyrs' Brigade said in a statement: "This was a dirty use of our brother Ayman and we don't accept that the name of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades is part of the movie. We reserve the right to respond in a way we find suitable."

The 37-year-old comedian has been forced to take serious security measures to protect himself and his family from a revenge attack after calling Al Quaeda leader Osama bin Laden a "dirty wizard or a homeless Father Christmas" in his recent fim

Serious business.

Sascha Baron Cohen is an Orthodox Jew and Zionist. He actually lied about the man he interviewed, Abu Aita (who is CHRISTIAN).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZheYqoKtt60

Excerpt from The Guardian article about this entire ordeal:

"How could he say this about me?" asks [Ayman] Abu Aita. "He lied from the beginning and he is still lying now."

Abu Aita, 44, from Beit Sahour, near Bethlehem, is described in the film Brüno as a member of al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of the Fatah movement. Now Abu Aita plans to sue for defamation, while Baron Cohen has reportedly received threats from the brigade.

…Promoting the film recently on the David Letterman talkshow in the US, Baron Cohen explained that finding a "terrorist" to interview for the movie took several months and some help from a CIA contact. He described the secular Martyrs Brigades, most of whom signed an amnesty deal with Israel in 2007, as "the number one suicide bombers out there".

Abu Aita said: "My file is clear with the Americans. I was in the states twice and I travel all the time."

And here is a crucial piece of information that highlights the cynicism in Cohen's style of humor (pure propaganda for cheap laughs):

In promoting "Bruno," Baron Cohen has depicted his interview with Abu Aita as a dangerous mission that required special security to take him into the West Bank for a clandestine meeting at a secret location.

"It's not that easy to find an actual terrorist," Baron Cohen said last week while promoting the movie on the "Late Show with David Letterman." "In fact, your government has been looking for one for about nine years."

To find his "terrorist" foil, Baron Cohen said, he had to seek out a CIA contact and spend months searching for someone who finally put him in touch with Abu Aita. Then, Baron Cohen said, he had trouble finding security wiling to take him to meet Abu Aita.

The reality was much more sedate, however.

Abu Aita is no terrorist on the run. He's a 39-year-old father of four and a local political leader with the pro-Western Fatah Party. His Christian family owns two markets that sell groceries and alcohol in Beit Sahour, a small West Bank town next to Bethlehem.

Tracking him down and setting up an interview required a few phone calls.

While Abu Aita did serve two years in prison in Israel for his role at a Fatah leader during the second Palestinian uprising, he dismissed Baron Cohen's depiction of him as a nefarious terrorist mastermind.

Although several Palestinian activists identified Abu Aita as a member of al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, he said he'd never been part of the militant group that the United States and Israel classify as a terrorist organization.

Newspaper stories from 2002, however, identify him as a local al Aqsa leader at a time when the group was stepping up its suicide bombings of Israeli targets.

"Don't look at us as angels," Abu Aita told The Boston Globe in 2002 before he was imprisoned. "As long as there is occupation, there will be resistance."

These days, he works with the Holy Land Trust, a Bethlehem-based charity that promotes nonviolence.

He had no qualms when a friend asked him to sit down last year with a visiting journalist who he was told wanted to focus on the plight of the Palestinian people.

The location was hardly clandestine, and it wasn't especially risky.

Abu Aita met Baron Cohen in a private room above a restaurant in a part of the West Bank outside Bethlehem that's still under full Israeli military control.

Source: McClatchy - http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/71988.html

Sorry for the digression.

[Elvis]

Pointing out other fanatics and radicals doesnt change the fact that Islamic extremists are a growing group of crazies over there, and I would be ashamed to be a Muslim these days. Take responsibility for your religion and start standing up to these people.

Islam is not a monolith.

Muslims in Indonesia are not all the same. Muslims in Indonesia versus Saudia Arabia are not all the same.

Blah blah blah.

You're very narrow-minded. There are different sects in Islam. There are non-religious factors that influence how people interpret Islam. Geopolitics/etc.

Why should a Muslim living in America, obeying the law, and blah blah feel ASHAMED to be a Muslim because a religious fanatic did something fanatical?

Only a weak-minded person - who lets middle-school level intellectualism get to them - would assume that they have to be on trial for what Osama bin Laden has done.

You can be critical of your faith. You can be critical of others within your faith.

You do not have to be ashamed.

[Neosutra]

Ah yes, back to the "its not the religion that is to blame, it is the people!". Nothing in Islam is actually influencing any of this, people are just "misinterpreting" the literature.

[Elvis]

Even though you trivialize that standard rebuttal - it does not take away from it's honesty and meaningfulness. It's common sense.

Neo, there are obviously different interpretations in ALL religions.

In Islam, there is Wahabi(sp), Sufi, Sunni and Shia.

These are different sects. The notion of 'sects' exist in Christianity and Judaism. All three of these religions have lots of similarities.

They reflect the eras in which they originated out of - but unless all 1 billion+ Muslim people are screaming Jihad til they die and raping and pillaging - no, it's not the religion itself.

It's how we interpret it. That doesn't mean the religion is innocent. None of these books are. They all have ideas within them that do not conform to most contemporary societies.

Your alternative is to say Islam is the problem. That's just a very intellectually lazy way to deal w/ the extremists.