DOW over 9k and rising, unemployment starting to drop, Freddie stabilizing...

[eunhye]

Jet Setting

Plan for new jets for Congress sparks bipartisan resistance - On Deadline - USATODAY.com

Opposition Emerges to House's Jet Spree - WSJ.com

Porky appropriation: Request for 1 jet turns into 3 - wtop.com

Rep. Jim Moran, D-Va., who serves on the Appropriations Committee, says he doesn't remember any particular discussion on why a request for one jet ended up with an allocation for three.

Have to say though this quote from WSJ

"The whole thing kind of makes me sick to my stomach," said Sen. Claire McCaskill (D., Mo.) in an interview Sunday. "It is evidence that some of the cynicism about Washington is well placed -- that people get out of touch and they spend money like it's Monopoly money."

hah!

[Norellicus]

?

Consumer spending rose near 5 percent after last year's stimulus, and that was only 600 bucks.

Wasn't that a lot lower than projected though, given the total amount handed out? I could be way off base here, I don't know for sure. A 5% increase given how far it had already fallen seems rather insignificant though.

Eunhye- Holy fuck.

[eunhye]

wait for it!

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc...8-2009-MBR.pdf

CBO: July saw federal deficits grow by $181 billion | SmallGovTimes.com

A 21 percent increase in spending accounts for the majority of the added deficits in just a year’s time, which brings the total to $880 billion higher than this time in fiscal year 2008.

[ertyu]

Wasn't that a lot lower than projected though, given the total amount handed out? I could be way off base here, I don't know for sure. A 5% increase given how far it had already fallen seems rather insignificant though.

Eunhye- Holy fuck.

You can't just write it off as nothing, a 5% increase is a fuck ton. So you can't just say it doesn't work, because it did work.

And eunhye, I'm glad you're bringing these issues to light. I just can't wait for senoska to come back and say how actually that's all good money being spent and how he supports it.

[Beckwin]

wait for it!

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc...8-2009-MBR.pdf

CBO: July saw federal deficits grow by $181 billion | SmallGovTimes.com

that "by this time in 2008" figure seems ridiculously misleading; Bush's initial bailout didn't come until after this point last year

[eunhye]

the CBO hates Obama! oh noez

[Beckwin]

You can't just write it off as nothing, a 5% increase is a fuck ton. So you can't just say it doesn't work, because it did work.

And eunhye, I'm glad you're bringing these issues to light. I just can't wait for senoska to come back and say how actually that's all good money being spent and how he supports it.

I wanna see general economic trends the year being discussed, because it's really hard to peg a 5% increase on a 300-600 check.

oh and by the way, consumer spending rose this june. wanna give all the glory to Obama's stimulus? didn't think so.

[eunhye]

I wanna see general economic trends the year being discussed, because it's really hard to peg a 5% increase on a 300-600 check.

oh and by the way, consumer spending rose this june. wanna give all the glory to Obama's stimulus? didn't think so.

acutally no.

Consumers trim debt for 5th straight month - Stocks & economy- msnbc.com

WASHINGTON - The Federal Reserve says consumers paid down their credit cards and reduced other debt in June for the fifth straight month as they rebuild savings battered by the recession.

consumers are "hunkering" down aka, saving and paying off that CC Debt they owed since December and past bills.

[Beckwin]

Consumer spending rises in June, incomes fall | Reuters

U.S. consumer spending rose slightly more than expected in June, a government report showed on Tuesday, likely pushed up by higher gasoline prices, and incomes saw their biggest drop in four-and-a-half years. The Commerce Department said spending rose 0.4 percent, boosted by expenditures on nondurable goods, after a revised 0.1 percent increase in May, which was previously reported as a 0.3 percent rise.

[ertyu]

How would it have anything to do with Obama though? He hasn't given us any money in any form, and unemployment is still in free fall downwards. near 100k people just from GM lost their jobs in July, not to mention how many other people have as well. The article even cites gas prices rising to the rise in money spent. I'm gonna have to look at this story more, I work at Thomson Reuters so I'm gonna ask who wrote this story where he got this from, lol.

[eunhye]

i stand corrected but let me ask you this. which is weird. weird weird. from that article

Personal incomes declined 1.3 percent in June, however, as the effects of one-time government stimulus checks in May wore off, and U.S. stock index futures extended losses after the report while government bond prices rose.

The Commerce Department said spending rose 0.4 percent, boosted by expenditures on nondurable goods, after a revised 0.1 percent increase in May, which was previously reported as a 0.3 percent rise.

your income declines and you are spending more. how are you able to do this? well that's beside the point. via cc's. just seems odd to me, if my income decreases i would buy only essentials and leave out the discretionary income. ex: safeway brand yogurt versus yoplay.

[ertyu]

i stand corrected but let me ask you this. which is weird. weird weird. from that article





your income declines and you are spending more. how are you able to do this? well that's beside the point. via cc's. just seems odd to me, if my income decreases i would buy only essentials and leave out the discretionary income. ex: safeway brand yogurt versus yoplay.

I'm fairly certain it's this:

U.S. consumer spending rose slightly more than expected in June, a government report showed on Tuesday, likely pushed up by higher gasoline prices, and incomes saw their biggest drop in four-and-a-half years.

[Beckwin]

because gas prices rose a bit, as well as other consumer staples.

hey remember when gas prices hit record highs during the Bush years (and stimulus years)? I wonder if that and other factors had anything whatsoever to do with that 5% figure compared to the awesome power of a 300 dollar check.

[eunhye]

correct me if i am wrong, but i thought the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 were created via tax rebates whereas the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 was created by printing, some tax cuts

[ertyu]

because gas prices rose a bit, as well as other consumer staples.

hey remember when gas prices hit record highs during the Bush years (and stimulus years)? I wonder if that and other factors had anything whatsoever to do with that 5% figure compared to the awesome power of a 300 dollar check.

You're comparing a near 5 percent rise to a .4 percent rise? Numbers don't lie, I'm not defending last year's stimulus saying it was the best money ever spent, but you have to admit it had to work at least somewhat. Even if only half of the people spent the money on something, it's better than nothing.

The entire point i'm trying to make in all of these posts is state governments should not be allowed to have free reign over this money, with the only restrictions they have is "Don't build a casino, a pool, or a golf course". Are people really arguing that? There are so many pork projects going on, they are creating a good deal of jobs, but how much contract type work can you create? What about when those jobs are over? There are people who worked at big financial institutions, making near or over 100k a year, and what now, they have to settle for 30000 a year contract work that they know will end sometime?

I honestly would have rather had all of this money going towards big business somehow. Whether it be give money to consumers so they spend more, or give it directly to the companies (what ever happened to that 4000 dollar tax credit for companies hiring a new employee?)

[Beckwin]

there's an amazing amount that can be done with the money. building rail/public transportation infrastructure, repairing schools/libraries/etc, creating new after-school education programs, clean(er) energy initiatives such as wind/solar rebate programs, improving water management/efficiency, conservation projects, and so on.

and heaven fucking forbid that 100k+ earners are gonna have to deal with a working class salary instead of being jobless for a couple years until things get sorted out. weren't you complaining earlier about big shots still getting paid?

[ertyu]

there's an amazing amount that can be done with the money. building rail/public transportation infrastructure, repairing schools/libraries/etc, creating new after-school education programs, clean(er) energy initiatives such as wind/solar rebate programs, improving water management/efficiency, conservation projects, and so on.

and heaven fucking forbid that 100k+ earners are gonna have to deal with a working class salary instead of being jobless for a couple years until things get sorted out. weren't you complaining earlier about big shots still getting paid?

You've obviously never lived in NYC, or LA, someplace with a high cost of living. It's not their fault that it costs so much to live in these cities. Are they just supposed to up and move because they lost their jobs one day?

Ask anyone from these boards that's lived in NYC, earning even 80k a year isn't that much. At all. And god forbid 30k or 40k.

[Dimmauk]

What is the Cash for Clunkers process doing to the used car markets, dealerships, auctions, etc.?

I've heard bits here and there about the negative impact, but nothing specific.

My dad who works as a Finance manager for a Used car dealership, said they have been making crazy money.

[Beckwin]

You've obviously never lived in NYC, or LA, someplace with a high cost of living. It's not their fault that it costs so much to live in these cities. Are they just supposed to up and move because they lost their jobs one day?

Ask anyone from these boards that's lived in NYC, earning even 80k a year isn't that much. At all. And god forbid 30k or 40k.

I've lived in Southern California (San Diego specifically, not quite LA but overall more expensive than a lot of the country).

And what other job are they gonna get? If they can land another 100k+ job then they'll obviously go for it, but 30-40k sure as hell beats nothing. You're basically asking for some dope ass welfare because they used to make lots of money... I just find it strange that (fiscal) conservatives generally display little sympathy for meager welfare for people who've generally never had it anywhere near that good.

[ertyu]

I've lived in Southern California (San Diego specifically, not quite LA but overall more expensive than a lot of the country).

And what other job are they gonna get? If they can land another 100k+ job then they'll obviously go for it, but 30-40k sure as hell beats nothing. You're basically asking for some dope ass welfare because they used to make lots of money... I just find it strange that (fiscal) conservatives generally display little sympathy for meager welfare for people who've generally never had it anywhere near that good.

No, I don't want welfare at all. I want people to spend more money, which will make demand for products and services go up, which will force companies to hire more people, which will create demand for jobs, which will in turn give people MORE money so they can spend more and more, and it will hopefully snowball, and then the economy will eventually go back to the way it was.

Is that too much to ask?