What Religion are you?

[Senoska]

Without knowledge, there is no grounds to build a belief on. If you can't know that a god exists, then you can't know that you belief or disbelief in its existence without being irrationally and hypocritically wrong, which is kind of the whole point, right?

This would be okay and correct if you had no concept of what a god is. Once we've moved on and agreed on what we're talking about its down to belief more than personal knowledge.

Also, nonbelief is not antigod or anti anything, its just not holding a conviction to something. You can not believe in it, and not know.

Has seno been beating Mirriam's Dictionary on everyone's forehead for several consecutive pages then claim a page with a misspelling of 'omniscience' and a mangling of the word 'paradox?'

Touché on a spelling error. Golly.

[Senoska]

Without knowledge, there is no grounds to build a belief on. If you can't know that a god exists, then you can't know that you believe or disbelieve in its existence without being irrationally and hypocritically wrong, which is kind of the whole point, right?


And no, Seno hasn't been reciting the dictionary, but rather making up definitions to however they want them to sound.

I'm copy and pasting it. What are you talking about? What have I made up? Enlighten me.

[Erza]

Faith is just gullibility with a different name, it really baffles me how people in this day and age believe stuff without scientific evidence. bah.

Scripture pisses me off even more, do ye religious people ever consider, hey maybe this book isn't of divine origin and is really just the product of some deluded folk?

[zoobernut]

This would be okay and correct if you had no concept of what a god is. Once we've moved on and agreed on what we're talking about its down to belief more than personal knowledge.

Also, nonbelief is not antigod or anti anything, its just not holding a conviction to something. You can not believe in it, and not know.

Touché on a spelling error. Golly.

Well right there you proved yourself wrong. There is NO universal definition of god. Some religions even believe in multiple gods. Therefore by your own post you are wrong and there is room for the "I don't know" answer.

Your idea that "I don't know" isn't a valid answer is just bullshit. It is not black and white and there are gray areas when it comes to believing in a higher power or powers.


Edit: Please if you have a universal definition of god that everyone agrees on please let me know what that definition is.

[Knyghtmayre]

....No.... Gnostic literally means "With knowledge." If you add an A in front if it... What do you get?
Gnostic and agnostic have NOTHING to do with belief.

A gnostic is a follower of Gnosticism.
Holy fuck, look up words you don't know before you start spouting definitions.

Atheist : believes in no god, as a "belief" which does not require fact
Agnostic : does not believe because of lack of knowledge/evidence
Theist : believes in God or Gods, as a "belief" which does not require fact
Gnostic : proclaims knowledge/evidence of God

So a gnostic atheist would be one who proclaims knowledge of God... and then says it doesn't exist.

I guess you could use it as a term to describe someone that literally believes God used to exist and died?

Atheist is a lack of believe agnostic means you're not sure.
Agnostic atheist = I don't believe but I can't be positive.
Flip it around and a gnostic theist is someone who clames to know and believes in god.
I believe in god and claim to know he exist.
So being sure there is no god would be a gnostic atheist.

No, I get butthurt when people are wrong this is the one thing I have some knowledge on and there's no interpretation to this..
That being said, again, you're wrong.

* Main Entry: athe·ist
: one who believes that there is no deity

* Main Entry: ag·nos·tic
1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2 : a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>

You don't even know what you believe, stop trying to act like you know what others do.

[Senoska]

Well right there you proved yourself wrong. There is NO universal definition of god. Some religions even believe in multiple gods. Therefore by your own post you are wrong and there is room for the "I don't know" answer.

Your idea that "I don't know" isn't a valid answer is just bullshit. It is not black and white and there are gray areas when it comes to believing in a higher power or powers.


Edit: Please if you have a universal definition of god that everyone agrees on please let me know what that definition is.

A higher power? You can be broad in this definition. Specifics are not required to know what is usually defined as a "god"

[zoobernut]

But they are. In order to believe in something it has to be definable. In order for you to tell me that I either have to believe or not believe you have to tell me what it is that I am supposed to be deciding. Since there are so many variations of types of gods and what they do and their place in the universe I don't think you can say that.

Really there is no usual definition of a god.

Note: I am not talking about by population of people but if you look at all religions throughout time there are a lot of different definitions for god or in some cases gods.

[Senoska]

You don't even know what you believe, stop trying to act like you know what others do.

What's your point? I have no idea what you're trying to say. You've quoted a bunch of shit and highlighted what appears to be useless lines.

Atheism isn't a "belief" for one, its a lack of a belief, unless a lack of a belief is in itself... a belief in something.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Agnostic here. Mostly nihilist as well. Minored in moral philosophy too.

Having been part of some really great classroom/internet discussions about this very topic, it's always sparked my interest. In the end though it's never amounted to anything worthwhile and growing up in a somewhat traditional hispanic household, I've grown a strong, albeit unintentional, disdain toward Catholicism, and Christianity largely by extension. Even living in a fairly liberal area (just outside NYC), you meet some really dumb people from all cultures who are die hard catholics. Many fail to realize that the only reason the are even Catholic to begin with is because of The Spanish Inquisition. It really blows my mind how anyone can be so unwavering about belief systems when they've only ever known one and were essentially born into it. Furthermore, the only reason that even occurred to begin with is because several generations ago their ancestors were forced into believing it under penalty of cruel and unusual punishment!

People are just dumb, and religion is just one of those things they hold onto because many are too afraid to come to grips with the fact that over the course of thousands of years religion has been revealed to be an outright lie. It was all about controlling the masses and providing people with a moral compass. You don't need to be religious to understand morality and you don't need to pray to an invisible man for comfort and guidance. Look around yourselves and you'll find all that you need. Religion is yesterday's mind control. Now we have the internet. Time to phase that old shit out.

ninja edit: One further note--I simply cannot wait until we find life on another planet, even if it's just some amoeba. A discovery of that magnitude would essentially debunk nearly every religion on the planet with any sort of mystical, ancient roots where people are "special" or "made in the image of god". There is no god and you can't have a pony.

[Knyghtmayre]

STOP FUCKING CONTRADICTING YOURSELF

I'm done, enjoy your wafers.

[Senoska]

But they are. In order to believe in something it has to be definable. In order for you to tell me that I either have to believe or not believe you have to tell me what it is that I am supposed to be deciding. Since there are so many variations of types of gods and what they do and their place in the universe I don't think you can say that.

Really there is no usual definition of a god.

Note: I am not talking about by population of people but if you look at all religions throughout time there are a lot of different definitions for god or in some cases gods.

I think we're clear on what we're talking about when we say "god." That of the bible, obviously.

If we can't agree on that, then how do you claim to know anything about your beliefs theist or not.

Also ...do you not believe in anything because there is no "real" definition? Do you believe that an apple has a taste even though I can't describe the specifics of it? When I say "the taste of an apple" I imagine, despite having vastly different experiences, we're on the same page in our minds. Or as close as we can be.

[Senoska]

STOP FUCKING CONTRADICTING YOURSELF

I'm done, enjoy your wafers.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

I've stayed CONSISTENT in what I've posted here.

Gnostic anything is a statement of
KNOWLEDGE


theist anything is a statement of
BELIEF


That being said ATHEISM is the LACK of BELIEF in
THEISM

what don't you understand?

edit: I'll address everyone one of your points.

....No.... Gnostic literally means "With knowledge." If you add an A in front if it... What do you get?
Gnostic and agnostic have NOTHING to do with belief.

Great, glad we've covered this.

A gnostic is a follower of Gnosticism.
Holy fuck, look up words you don't know before you start spouting definitions.

No. The root of agnostic is gnostic as seen in my prior post. I'll post it one last time for you.

• Main Entry: 1ag·nos·tic
• Pronunciation: \ag-ˈnäs-tik, əg-\
• Function: noun
• Etymology: Greek agnōstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnōstos known, from gignōskein to know — more at know
• Date: 1869

1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2 : a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>
— ag·nos·ti·cism \-tə-ˌsi-zəm\ noun

Atheist is a lack of believe agnostic means you're not sure.
Agnostic atheist = I don't believe but I can't be positive.
Flip it around and a gnostic theist is someone who clames to know and believes in god.
I believe in god and claim to know he exist.
So being sure there is no god would be a gnostic atheist.

Why did you bold the flip it around portion? Are you trying to say that atheism is a belief? About as much as bald is a hair color. Wait, we covered that too.

No, I get butthurt when people are wrong this is the one thing I have some knowledge on and there's no interpretation to this..
That being said, again, you're wrong.

I've got no idea what you're trying to say.

* Main Entry: athe·ist
: one who believes that there is no deity

Yup. But how is that any different than saying "Someone without a belief in a god."

* Main Entry: ag·nos·tic
1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2 : a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>

And? You've proven my point

That being said, what's the point that you're making?

[Demosthenes11]

I think we're clear on what we're talking about when we say "god." That of the bible, obviously.

are you high?

[Khajit]

Political bias affects brain activity, study finds - LiveScience- msnbc.com
This article explains a few things things. for example it essentially says that if you read/see something that you agree with your brain makes you a little high. At the same time if you see something you disagree with and ignore it you get the exact same thing. so essentially the human brain is wired to cause the retarded arguments you see about everything(including religion) and makes the posters doing so feel a little warm inside. So noone is really bothering to listen to what the other side has to say mostly.

All or Nothing Thinking | Clinical-Depression.co.uk
This is an article talking about the "all or nothing" concept. Which is essentially why senoska is saying you cant use "I dont know" as an answer.
This though helps you make quick decisions that were very important when we had to choose between options like "run or hide".


lastly
Tribal war drove human evolution of aggression

This is basically the "us vs them" line of thought. This is why theists and atheists act ;like they want each other's blood.. eh ill post more on that later maybe.

[Obev]

are you high?

Higher power, man.

Despite a lack of any religious feeling, I am considering declaring a fatwa against pedantry.

[Cyn]

LET'S RAGE OVER SEMANTICS.

[Atreides]

Let's ABUSE text markups

[Aphelidia]

Oh I always love religion debates.

Ok heres my view on things.

First I should mention that Im not following any religion even tho I was raised as a christian. But I do believe there is one or many gods (to claim that there is one and only one is bullshit as there is no way to know one way or the other. You may claim your beliefs but you cant prove them, And if it could be proven, it no longer would be a belief, but knowledge).

What I think is wrong in most religions is when they force you to do certain things. One example that I find utterly laughable is when a religion requires that you give a certain percentage of your paycheck to them every week. Wtf does god need my money for?

Another thing that I really find ridiculous are those fanatic people that will go out of their way to make sure they do everything exactly as it is mentionned in the bible, holybook, or whatever your religion uses. My opinion on this is that, the books/tools are not necessarily a bad thing, but they arent each and everyone's truth in life. They are nothing but guides; stories that were recorded and handed down through the centuries. Take what is good for you in them as a lesson in life to become a better person, but you don't have to abide to every line. Doing so is when you become a slave without a mind of your own. I dont know about the rest of the world, but I certainly don't want to believe in a god that practice slavery. While I agree that slavery gets shit done, there are better ways.

Another ridiculous part of a lot of religions is when they control people with fear. Fear of what will be after death if you dont obey their rules. Truth is, not one living soul on earth knows what is after death. Therefore, you fear the unknown. I believe someone like this probably hasnt been out of the house often, by fear of what is outside.

I could probably go on all night. But I dont want to make this too long.

Long story short, just see religions as guides to become a better person overall, and while aiming for perfection is a great thing, there's a line between being a perfect person and a perfect slave.

[Heavencloud]

Wow people put so much thought in to trying to say what others believe... lol. Who cares? They believe what they believe, why does it matter what it's called?

[ZarakiKujata]

Who knew this board was such a den of apostate whores. Praise be Science!




Now let us all go enjoy what is in store for us from Allah the merciful in the bowels of Hell.