What Religion are you?

[hagun]

You see, this is the problem again: science tries to define religion. This will never work out. Science tries to explain the universe and I accept it's many explanations and wait for it's new discoveries. I also accept certain religious beliefs. I don't base my acceptance of religion based on science, so why do people do? Why do we try to rationalize something as inquantifibly as faith with science?

[Faris]

What amuses me is that the fist pumping atheist is basically exactly the same as the thing he hates most- the fist pumping evangelical/zealot/religious person. They both made an emotional decision, neither is capable or willing to make efforts to understand or appreciate the other's beliefs, and they are both intent on trying to convert others or at the very least tell as many as they can about how they are wrong with smug self righteousness.

My religion understands and appreciates science; I do understand, and highly appreciate science. its the otherside that doesnt appreciate God and religion.

[Faris]

Also, that is why I think that science and religion should never be mixed. The two are vastly alien concepts in relation to each other.

goddamnit stop saying religion, christianity maybe. but not religion.

If we disregard 1-3 theories in science, does not make us disregard the whole idea of science.....like someone mentioned earlier, science isnt a dogma.

[hagun]

Where's your proof that it was exaggerated?



Has religion been able to explain the instant before God created the universe? You know, when, in the beginning, there was nothing? No. Not yet.

This sort of my thinking. You really can't discredit what people have their faith into. Those with religious faith would just tell you that you have no faith and Mr. Science will just stare at Mr. Religion for a while. Then after Mr. Science will begin again saying, "Let me explain it again..."

Religion versus science debate will never go anywhere. I think it's time we realize that.

[Stiker]

Also, that is why I think that science and religion should never be mixed. The two are vastly alien concepts in relation to each other.

goddamnit stop saying religion, christianity maybe. but not religion.

If we disregard 1-3 theories in science, does not make us disregard the whole idea of science.....like someone mentioned earlier, science isnt a dogma.

Uh, no?

Look, I'm Christian and religious and I know science and religion shouldn't be mixed. Faith is one of the most illogical things in the world and science is rooted in logic.

I agree that being religious should not stop one from pursuing (or prohibit anyone else from pursuing) scientific research, but they just don't mix at all.

Look at it this way, if God and dogmas of religion could be proven by logic, it wouldn't be called faith. You can make all the logical arguments in the world, but in the end there has to be that illogical leap, there is no way around it.

[kuronosan]

You see, this is the problem again: science tries to define religion. This will never work out. Science tries to explain the universe and I accept it's many explanations and wait for it's new discoveries. I also accept certain religious beliefs. I don't base my acceptance of religion based on science, so why do people do? Why do we try to rationalize something as inquantifibly as faith with science?

I already had this argument before that faith is an irrational belief that defies logic and cannot be defined by science.

Science doesn't attempt to define religion. It only attempts to explain it.

I choose to believe in God because I have the free will to do so. I have no reason to believe there is or isn't one. Only faith. I embrace that, because to embrace that faith is what makes me human.

Science can't explain religion because religion is man-made. Science only explains things that already existed well before man. Gravity was around before the bible was.

That's my problem with a lot of religion today, as even though I am spiritual, people simply think God created everything so complicated and God made man. If God made man, then why would he go to so many great lengths to make him suffer for a grand plan? Isn't that a little sadistic and selfish? To think God is so great that he would make an organism just so he could watch it suffer so that some guy somewhere has a more fulfilled life?

Is it supposed to bring me comfort to think I might die tomorrow so that someone else might be happier later on in life because it was all part of God's plan? Well, it doesn't. It doesn't make me feel like I should be thanking someone for giving me a life of misery or for making the people I love miserable.

I don't feel like I should thank God my brother is a homeless bum who thinks he's Jesus and had a future he ruined just because two years from now my father might realize his mistakes. Do you see how utterly ridiculous that sounds?

I believe in a God, and I believe he may watch over us, but I hardly believe he is a loving and forgiving God if he is so quick to condemn people to a place called hell because they refuse to praise him every 5 seconds. We're talking about the same God who gave you free will and told you that you have a right to use it. Why would he allow you to not believe in him if believing in him is so crucial to your salvation? Why would other people have to convince you that he is the one true God if he was the one true God?

Why would people kill each other over this belief if God was the one true power in the universe? If God was truly omnipotent, why would Satan have ANY power over anyone?

If you can't ask yourselves these questions and at least try to logically answer them and wonder why without reading the bible and simply talking to somebody calmly about them, then you're not religious, you're a fucking idiot.

You don't have to get the same answer as somebody else does, and you don't have to believe the same thing as anyone else does... but if you honestly just take what you're told because it's what you're told you aren't at all being spiritual or holy or anything else. You're blindly believing a lie.

[Jazz Kazuko]

This sort of my thinking. You really can't discredit what people have their faith into. Those with religious faith would just tell you that you have no faith and Mr. Science will just stare at Mr. Religion for a while. Then after Mr. Science will begin again saying, "Let me explain it again..."

Religion versus science debate will never go anywhere. I think it's time we realize that.

Not really, you are only comparing it to western religions. I think they area all a little too fable. "If it defies my ideas, then I will ignore it."

[Neosutra]

This sort of my thinking. You really can't discredit what people have their faith into. Those with religious faith would just tell you that you have no faith and Mr. Science will just stare at Mr. Religion for a while. Then after Mr. Science will begin again saying, "Let me explain it again..."

Religion versus science debate will never go anywhere. I think it's time we realize that.

You can't discredit what people have faith in? Since when does faith get a free pass on analytical reasoning? Any concept that requires people to "just believe" should be scrutinized and treated just like any other theory put forth.

Of all the theories put forth by man about why/how we got here, god is the least likely to be true.

[kuronosan]

I also wanted to add that I'm not trying to insult anyone's religion or beliefs... I'm merely saying that everyone seems to defend religion as pure faith yet nobody questions what is written in their scriptures or told to them by their priests...

In the case of Science, it's the same thing as Galileo claiming the world is round when it was written and believed the world was flat. He set out to prove otherwise and was killed for it. And guess what? He was right, and others were wrong.

[hagun]

Why does science try to explain something that has no logic? This is silly.

[Neosutra]

Why does science try to explain something that has no logic? This is silly.

It doesn't, it simply reveals it to be illogical.

[Stiker]

I also wanted to add that I'm not trying to insult anyone's religion or beliefs... I'm merely saying that everyone seems to defend religion as pure faith yet nobody questions what is written in their scriptures or told to them by their priests...

Wrong.

I'm not saying there are those that don't because I know there are plenty of examples in this world, but that isn't something that I commonly see around my church or others that I have been to. Not questioning your faith is probably one of the worst things you can do.

I've been to a Jewish temple before and after their service, the Rabbi was quite literally grilled with questions from his congregation for about a half hour.

Firas even mentioned earlier that he was unsatisfied with a passage that was quoted in this thread and asked about it.

[Jaraude]

Wow, actually not in the minority for once unlike practically everywhere else in life. I knew there was a reason why I like these forums.

[kuronosan]

Why does science try to explain something that has no logic? This is silly.

It's not trying to explain something illogical. It's trying to explain why people believe in illogical concepts.

In other words, it's not trying to explain why religion exists. It's trying to explain why man believes in a concept which preys on the weak, ignorant, and encourages people to have faith in a being of higher power that exists in a symbiotic relationship very similar to having a wife-beating husband.

Psychology is a biological function which exists to maintain homeostasis inside of a person. Like all systems, it is prone to defects or loopholes which may help or harm the particular organism.

Science attempts to answer the question: "Why would an all-powerful being create a species out of love only to subjugate them for the rest of their lives that he already planned out for them?"

That's not faith. It's unreasonable. If you have a baby with somebody, and you love them, and the child, but the only reason you had the baby was so that ten years from now you could kill the mother and save the child (thereby making yourself an hero), does that make you a good person?

Fuck no. So if it doesn't make you a good person, why should I believe that God, in all of his infinite wisdom, is a genuinely benign being when from what I have read in the scriptures and seen practiced, I have only reason to believe he is just as human as the very humans he's created?

Don't tell me to have faith in something we were created in the image of. If God made us in his image, then something is either wrong with God or he didn't know how to make people right.

Wrong.

I'm not saying there are those that don't because I know there are plenty of examples in this world, but that isn't something that I commonly see around my church or others that I have been to. Not questioning your faith is probably one of the worst things you can do.

I've been to a Jewish temple before and after their service, the Rabbi was quite literally grilled with questions from his congregation for about a half hour.

Firas even mentioned earlier that he was unsatisfied with a passage that was quoted in this thread and asked about it.

I'm in a huge bout of faith questioning right now, and yet I have read and read my scriptures and others and I have seen nothing that answers my questions to a satisfactory level. Nothing. Nothing that explains to me why I should believe that humans are inherently evil when they were created by another being. If that's the case, God should not have made an apple knowing that he gave humans the capacity to make mistakes... and even then he cast them from Eden, right? So I should believe God is forgiving when he forever banished two people from paradise for a single mistake that they may have been sorry for?

If anything, the allegory of Adam & Eve teaches us that people aren't allowed to make mistakes or seek knowledge, because both seem to get you into a great deal of unforgivable trouble.

[Faris]

I also wanted to add that I'm not trying to insult anyone's religion or beliefs... I'm merely saying that everyone seems to defend religion as pure faith yet nobody questions what is written in their scriptures or told to them by their priests...

In the case of Science, it's the same thing as Galileo claiming the world is round when it was written and believed the world was flat. He set out to prove otherwise and was killed for it. And guess what? He was right, and others were wrong.

imagine galileo was in a muslim nation, do you really think he'd be killed? lol

Science can't explain religion because religion is man-made. Science only explains things that already existed well before man. Gravity was around before the bible was.

again, christianity.

Look, I'm Christian and religious and I know science and religion shouldn't be mixed. Faith is one of the most illogical things in the world and science is rooted in logic.

I agree that being religious should not stop one from pursuing (or prohibit anyone else from pursuing) scientific research, but they just don't mix at all.

Look at it this way, if God and dogmas of religion could be proven by logic, it wouldn't be called faith. You can make all the logical arguments in the world, but in the end there has to be that illogical leap, there is no way around it.

and again christianity.

when there is a revelation talking about facts, then there is some logic.
and about faith, yes i agree with you. faith is very important, but thats the difference between Islam and Christianity. Christianity has faith only, Islam has faith and science.

[Jazz Kazuko]

Also, that is why I think that science and religion should never be mixed. The two are vastly alien concepts in relation to each other.

Actually, science has been apart of eastern religion for ages. In history, many scientist or scholars were part of religious pact. For example, Confucius, he was a social scientist. Segregation didn't happen until westernization. Then again, they had weird believes that were untrue and was corrected. Unlike western religion that never admit that it is wrong.

[Jazz Kazuko]

It's not trying to explain something illogical. It's trying to explain why people believe in illogical concepts.

In other words, it's not trying to explain why religion exists. It's trying to explain why man believes in a concept which preys on the weak, ignorant, and encourages people to have faith in a being of higher power that exists in a symbiotic relationship very similar to having a wife-beating husband.

Psychology is a biological function which exists to maintain homeostasis inside of a person. Like all systems, it is prone to defects or loopholes which may help or harm the particular organism.

Science attempts to answer the question: "Why would an all-powerful being create a species out of love only to subjugate them for the rest of their lives that he already planned out for them?"

That's not faith. It's unreasonable. If you have a baby with somebody, and you love them, and the child, but the only reason you had the baby was so that ten years from now you could kill the mother and save the child (thereby making yourself an hero), does that make you a good person?

Fuck no. So if it doesn't make you a good person, why should I believe that God, in all of his infinite wisdom, is a genuinely benign being when from what I have read in the scriptures and seen practiced, I have only reason to believe he is just as human as the very humans he's created?

Don't tell me to have faith in something we were created in the image of. If God made us in his image, then something is either wrong with God or he didn't know how to make people right.



I'm in a huge bout of faith questioning right now, and yet I have read and read my scriptures and others and I have seen nothing that answers my questions to a satisfactory level. Nothing. Nothing that explains to me why I should believe that humans are inherently evil when they were created by another being. If that's the case, God should not have made an apple knowing that he gave humans the capacity to make mistakes... and even then he cast them from Eden, right? So I should believe God is forgiving when he forever banished two people from paradise for a single mistake that they may have been sorry for?

If anything, the allegory of Adam & Eve teaches us that people aren't allowed to make mistakes or seek knowledge, because both seem to get you into a great deal of unforgivable trouble.

I'm curious, do Christianity(If I'm right, if not, please correct me.) really believe in stories as Adam and Eve? Also Noa's Arc? Or is it believed as a fairy-tale?

[kuronosan]

So what you both are telling me is that Christianity is the problem with the world, because it seeks to subjugate science and knowledge while the rest of the world embraces it?

Why is it such a problem, then, for people to be athiest or agnostic, if they came to a scientific conclusion that led them to that belief?

Or is it only okay for people to mix science and religion, so long as they aren't Christian?

I'm curious, do Christianity(If I'm right, if not, please correct me.) really believe in stories as Adam and Eve? Also Noa's Arc? Or is it believed as a fairy-tale?

True, progressive, educated Catholics do not take the old testament stories for anything but allegorical representations of popular urban stories of the time.

Everyone else in the Christian world literally believes these stories took place. I do not. I was raised Catholic, and yet I still struggle with really believing that Christ and God are so loving if they intentionally want people to suffer for not believing. If they wanted people to believe using their own free will, they wouldn't do so many disgusting things to people for choosing not to believe.

[Neosutra]

Firas, check a couple pages back, I sourced no less that 5 scientific contradictions in the Quran.

Stop pretending Islam is any more scientific than Christianity. Both of your religions have destroyed countless scientific progress and knowledge in your quest for dominance.

And Kuro: Faith isnt what makes us human, 23 chromosome pairs makes us human. Faith is just what squanders that deductive reasoning that derives from our genetic makeup on superstition and magic.

[Jazz Kazuko]

imagine galileo was in a muslim nation, do you really think he'd be killed? lol


again, christianity.



and again christianity.

when there is a revelation talking about facts, then there is some logic.
and about faith, yes i agree with you. faith is very important, but thats the difference between Islam and Christianity. Christianity has faith only, Islam has faith and science.

Do Islam religion have any eastern influence then? Since it believe in faith and science? I'm not too familiar with it. Does it believe in (a) god(s)? Well, actually, what is the definition of god in Islam religion? For example, most people refer kami as god but the word has a different discription. It is more for other beinging.