What Religion are you?

[Zosi]

Edit: Yes, I'm a page late, I'm trying to actually do work at work for once too.

The fundamental problem with "mixing faith and science" is that once you admit *ANY* conjecture or idea that isn't supported by other evidence, you completely completely change the character of your system in ways that frequently end up being disastrous.

As an example, I'd like to use mathematics. As everyone (hopefully) knows, no two integers are equal. If a - b = 0, then a = b. Now, suppose that you belong to a mystical religion that believes that God created mathematics and, for mystical reasons which are beyond human comprehension, set two unique extremely large numbers as equal. These two numbers are, let's say, absolutely gigantic - larger than the human brain could comprehend, larger than any computer in the world could store, and only God knows their exact value. Of course, they aren't big enough to be indescribable in some kind of mathematical notation, and that's where the house of cards starts to fall down. Once you can describe them, you can subtract one of the two from both, and end up with two different numbers that are both "zero", since you're subtracting the same number from both and zero is still unique, or was before we started this exercise. What you end up with is an entire hierarchy of "shadow numbers" that are just like normal numbers, except.. they only exist independent of regular numbers because you asserted something without proof.

Nearly the exact same argument applies to physics. It might seem innocuous to attribute just ONE little "matter from nothing" incident to God, but once you do, you destroy any basis that your theories have in reality. If you let God violate the laws you think govern the universe, you have no laws, because you can never know when something's happening because of explainable physical phenomena and when it's happening because God woke up on the wrong side of the bed and decided to not play by the "rules". It makes any attempt to enumerate the rules pointless, because at any instant, God could interfere and totally change things. The only alternative is to bind God to the laws of physics as well, but then he really doesn't deserve the title, does he?

A lot of religious people try to get around this by saying that God can, but won't do certain things, but that's nothing but an evasion - as with most faith-based assertions, it's just using faith to support other faith. Why do you believe that God won't do certain things? Because he told you, of course. Why can't he be lying? Because he's God, and God doesn't lie. Why doesn't God lie? Because God told you he doesn't lie. Repeat ad infinitum.

[dejet]

I will break down the world for 90% of the people

age 1-12 (the religion you mom/dad follow)

age 13-40(nothing because they to cool/know everything/went to school!)

age 41-death(back to what you followed when you where a kid, they notice how little they really know and the world around them is greater then that science book they read 25 years back)

Age death: ???


and there you have it.

[Neosutra]

You just love the religion motivated man, blah blah... I'm sure WW1 and WW2 were all motivated by religion, and use of those weapons was given to whomever as a message from God. Get over yourself son.

I'm sure cavemen used religion to design spears and such so they could over throw the Neanderthals and start the path of their God....

i almost thought you were smart, now I know your just an egomanical idiot.

The Atom bomb was designed to end a War.. think it work, and it damn sure wasn't in the name of God...

I neither stated that religion was the cause for all war, nor that science didnt open doors to more devastating weaponry. I pointed out the wars/atrocities that WERE caused by religion, and pointed out that the scientific method didnt motivate people to use those weapons. The argument here is motivation for action, not the tools used when such action is initiated.

And it was stated already, but the "good" people attribute from religion can be done w/o religion, the "good" from science cannot be done w/o science. Vaccines, atomic energy, crop rotations, every advancement mankind has ever made since the utility of fire..

And LOL @ Firas completely ignoring the facts in those links. "I want scientific sources!... Oh those were scientific sources.. crap!".

Edit: Dejet, what condescending crap is that? You just labeled atheism as a sophomoric belief that "once we realize we dont know everything" will be shed so we can go back to our childish beliefs in fairytales. You both contradicted yourself and insulted both theists and atheist, all in the same sentence. Jesus titty fucking Christ.

[dejet]

Edit: Dejet, what condescending crap is that? You just labeled atheism as a sophomoric belief that "once we realize we dont know everything" will be shed so we can go back to our childish beliefs in fairytales. You both contradicted yourself and insulted both theists and atheist, all in the same sentence. Jesus titty fucking Christ.

yes i did. Now deal with it why dont ya. about time people who dont think all religions are BS made fun of everyone else!

Edit: more based on people who think there is nothing at all. but hay Im having fun right now so take it how you would like and will go from there.

[kuronosan]

Islam do not believe "Everything" jews and christians do.

some of the stories are yes repeated in the Quran. But there are great differences, don't forget the bible and torat has been altered by man.


speaking of alterations, my turn being curious about you christians.

now we can all agree about the fact that - the bible has 4 versions, 4 bibles sort to say. how do you know which one is the word of God? or do you really believe that god revealed 4 versions of his words?

Who wrote the Quran, Firas? A man.

Come on now. This is why I don't like most of what you have to say. It always boils down to "Muslims have the right answer".

When it comes to man, there is no one person with the right answer.

[Jazz Kazuko]

Islam do not believe "Everything" jews and christians do.

some of the stories are yes repeated in the Quran. But there are great differences, don't forget the bible and torat has been altered by man.


speaking of alterations, my turn being curious about you christians.

now we can all agree about the fact that - the bible has 4 versions, 4 bibles sort to say. how do you know which one is the word of God? or do you really believe that god revealed 4 versions of his words?

Heh the real question is that how can you believe anything writtened BY MEN is the word of god.

[dejet]

I should say more random crap and troll more its fun O.o

I will just say this I do not care what you think. Go on with your life and when you dead you find out how wrong you are or right. /end bad troll

[Andarvi]

Does that also make me a horse, or a horse a human? Tell me Wilburrrrrrrr

Science made the Atomic Bomb, Biological Warefare, Chemical Warfare, the first bullet, gun powder, the list goes on.. that shit has destroyed a fair amount too.

Two of the dumbest posts thus far. I hope you are trying to be funny.

[kuronosan]

Hey, if you're content to make a fool out of yourself to prove an empty point... knock yourself out.

[Effluo]

now we can all agree about the fact that - the bible has 4 versions, 4 bibles sort to say. how do you know which one is the word of God? or do you really believe that god revealed 4 versions of his words?

I'm sorry, I don't read Hebrew or Aramaic or Greek. Someone had to translate it, translation leads to interpretation. Some one may or may not like one persons interpretation of said text.

There are those who believe the Bible to be inspired by God, but written by imperfect men, and those who believe the Bible is the true word. Again, it's all interpretation.

inb4the1trureligion

[Demosthenes11]

It's funny because Firas is the reason there are religious wars - the whole idea that "my religion is better than yours and yours is stupid; mine is the real god!"

muslims suck, christians suck - they all suck.

[Heavencloud]

Islam do not believe "Everything" jews and christians do.

some of the stories are yes repeated in the Quran. But there are great differences, don't forget the bible and torat has been altered by man.


speaking of alterations, my turn being curious about you christians.

now we can all agree about the fact that - the bible has 4 versions, 4 bibles sort to say. how do you know which one is the word of God? or do you really believe that god revealed 4 versions of his words?

I think this is where the Bible gets confused alot, especially by Christians. It's not supposed to be taken so literally. The way people misconstrue it leads to crazy extremists etc etc... It's all up to perspective as how you read it. You CAN believe in evolution and in the bible, I'd go find the passages where this can be validated but no time right now lol.

[Andarvi]

Yeah, when the argument degrades to the legitimacy of one mutli-millenia old text first another to assert one religion over another, you know you are in trouble.

[zoobernut]

I will break down the world for 90% of the people

age 1-12 (the religion you mom/dad follow)

age 13-40(nothing because they to cool/know everything/went to school!)

age 41-death(back to what you followed when you where a kid, they notice how little they really know and the world around them is greater then that science book they read 25 years back)

Age death: ???


and there you have it.

This is by far the worst troll attempt and dumbest in this thread by far. And that is saying a lot because there has been quite a bit of retard spewed out by everyone.

[Andarvi]

I think this is where the Bible gets confused alot, especially by Christians. It's not supposed to be taken so literally. The way people misconstrue it leads to crazy extremists etc etc... It's all up to perspective as how you read it. You CAN believe in evolution and in the bible, I'd go find the passages where this can be validated but no time right now lol.

The thing is with the whole interpretation angle is that exactly what is acceptable interpretation has changed since the bible's formation. It was interpreted quite literally for hundreds of years and honestly still is. We look back in our modern state of mind and say a lot of it is archaic and there is a hidden message, while back in 400 A.C.E. it was far more literal. In a thousand years when bibles are held in futuristic smithsonians as artifacts of a silly civilization they will look back on us and be baffled.

[Zosi]

I will break down the world for 90% of the people

age 1-12 (the religion you mom/dad follow)

age 13-40(nothing because they to cool/know everything/went to school!)

age 41-death(back to what you followed when you where a kid, they notice how little they really know and the world around them is greater then that science book they read 25 years back)

Age death: ???

and there you have it.

That's more motivated by human psychology than truth of the religions involved. People have a very hard time (impossible, perhaps) comprehending their own nonexistance, and the realization that they will die some day makes them reach for a solution that denies the reality of death. That doesn't make it true, simply comforting to believe.

Also, realizing how wonderful and complex the world is can actually be a strong motivation FOR science, rather than against it. If the world was completely understandable by the time you were 40, I'd be extremely disappointed.

[Effluo]

Read the Bible, learn the code, tell the future. There ARE hidden messages, we're just to blind to see them!!

[Zosi]

Read the Bible, learn the code, tell the future. There ARE hidden messages, we're just to blind to see them!!

Speak for yourself, I got this decoder ring in a cereal box, I TOTALLY know what's coming. Hint: buy Google stock.

[Jazz Kazuko]

The thing is with the whole interpretation angle is that exactly what is acceptable interpretation has changed since the bible's formation. It was interpreted quite literally for hundreds of years and honestly still is. We look back in our modern state of mind and say a lot of it is archaic and there is a hidden message, while back in 400 A.C.E. it was far more literal. In a thousand years when bibles are held in futuristic smithsonians as artifacts of a silly civilization they will look back on us and be baffled.

I have to agree. To me, there are basically two type of religion in the world. Active and Passive.

Active religion are Christianity, Islam, Muslim, and anything related. Where they believe a god, individualism and seek out (mercenary) and assimilate others into their religion.

Passive religion are Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, and so on where they don't believe in god or gods, don't believe in individualism, and is ... well ... passive. They don't seek out worshippers, well, we don't really call them worshippers either but they have them come to them instead.

Taking content of holy books litterately is just silly. Its like taking Final Fantasy 7 litterally because it is a great representation of Passive religion like Buddhism and Taoism. While Final Fantasy X is the best way to describe Shintoism. Why do you think we say Itadakimasu and Goochisama before and after eating a meal? Hehe.

[kuronosan]

I'm just wondering, with the "active" religions out there, why it's okay to question your faith and religion unless it leads you to a different answer.

Yes, it's okay to question your faith! Here's why!
*20 minutes later*
So what do you think?
Yea, I'm sorry, this isn't the religion for me.
HEATHEN!