What Religion are you?

[Jazz Kazuko]

I'm just wondering, with the "active" religions out there, why it's okay to question your faith and religion unless it leads you to a different answer.

Yes, it's okay to question your faith! Here's why!
*20 minutes later*
So what do you think?
Yea, I'm sorry, this isn't the religion for me.
HEATHEN!

Simple.

Active religion believes in "god". They believe in a champion or a "good" to belong to. They are one sided. That is why if it isn't within their realm then it is bad. Bad is wrong. Bad means punishment which is short, hell. Thus, this is where the conflict comes from.

Passive religion believes in the balance. For example, ying / yang. There is no good or bad, wrong or right, there is only reaction and action. However, since there is no god, there is the ability to seek out the perfect balance. Nirvana, Enlightenment, and so on. I guess with passive religion, like Buddhism, Taoism, and Shintoism, the worst thing one can do is interrupt the balance and cause impurity.

[Jefe]

This is by far the worst troll attempt and dumbest in this thread by far. And that is saying a lot because there has been quite a bit of retard spewed out by everyone.

He ain't that far off, actually. It may not have anything to do with religion, rather a more profound personal realization of sorts... the absurdity of their lives. For some reason, when people are a certain age (30 and after) they try to find a meaning to their existence.

For anyone interested and if "absurdity" doesn't ring a bell, go check out: "The Myth of Sisyphus," by Camus.

[Plow]

True, progressive, educated Catholics do not take the old testament stories for anything but allegorical representations of popular urban stories of the time.

Everyone else in the Christian world literally believes these stories took place. I do not. I was raised Catholic, and yet I still struggle with really believing that Christ and God are so loving if they intentionally want people to suffer for not believing. If they wanted people to believe using their own free will, they wouldn't do so many disgusting things to people for choosing not to believe.

dot dot dot...

No. First off, Catholicism is one of the least progressive sects of Christian religion. Secondly, it takes shit WAY more literally than the vast majority of Christianity.

Almost all of the Catholics I know would tell you Adam & Eve is a 100% true story, many of the other Christians I know would have to stifle laughter at the idea of it being literal.

There are a lot more open-minded religious folks than anyone's giving credit for here.

Depends. There are some that believe in absolute, word for word, literal interpretation of the Bible. There are others that believe some parts of the Bible are myths. Most of Genesis falls into this category. The reasoning behind it is that Moses wrote the first five books in the Bible and considering the only history he was really around for was Exodus forward, the book of Genesis is likely oral tradition that was written down for the first time.

Much closer analysis. There are tons of people on every side of this issue, literally billions between the extreme end points.

The links I posted compared passages in the Quran to scientific papers, the "proper" documents.

Just shows you didnt even read them, because you are afraid of being wrong. To bad, I would think someone with that much faith wouldnt be scared of the evidence.

Careful what you wish for, Neo, someone might come along and point out that you didn't read them either. Well, that, or if you did, you fail freaking terribly. Seeing how the first one I clicked listed them saying mud/dirt/clay 20 different ways and went OMG LOOK HOW CONTRADICTORY THEY ARE, THEY SAY DIRT AND WATER HERE, MUD HERE, AND CLAY HERE! WHICH IS IT GUYS GEEZ?!

now we can all agree about the fact that - the bible has 4 versions, 4 bibles sort to say. how do you know which one is the word of God? or do you really believe that god revealed 4 versions of his words?

There's more than 4, and they're not "versions," they're interpretations to a language which doesn't work well with Arabic languages.

[Max™]

lol

Why is that funny?

What will religion ever do to help you?

Don't give me hopes or dreams or maybes or bullshit promises from dead men parading as prophets.

Give me a direct answer, at the end of your life, when you're laying there facing the quenching of your mind, what the fuck will God do for you then?



Right now the world is in the grips of MADNESS which is fed by this stupid goddamn idea that there is something or someone who cares watching over us, faith is encouraged, knowledge is considered trivial. Church is a good thing, being a blind follower is something to be proud of, and turning away from "the truth" to seek answers for yourself is bad.




Don't do things that you want to do, because God will punish you.
Don't think things you want to think, because God will stop loving you.
Don't ask questions, because you might see the logical errors that unravel the whole stupid tapestry.

Just sit there and be happy obedient sheep... LITERALLY, they say to be like sheep, you know what happens to sheep?


Baa-aaahhhh... baaaa-ahhhh, now maybe I'm speaking in ways you can grasp?



Can you HONESTLY sit there and tell yourself that the world is a better place with this religious infection than it would be if it had never taken root?

Where would we be, as godless heathens? Without church controlled governments trying to quell the spreading of knowledge to their populace, for fear it would undermine their power base?

Where would we be if every time a war was pushed forward using religion in some way as a reason or excuse, if we had instead dumped that funding into improving our medical technology, or our scientific advancement?



We could have had the stars, you stupid goddamn monkeys, but you are happily throwing them away for a false promise handed down from dead men, a fairy tale, a lie.

I'm not anti-theist, or atheist, or agnostic, I am in no way involved in this stupid farce of a cultural timebomb.


I'm simply too goddamn logical to allow myself to fall prey to such childish ideas, pity more people weren't.

The world would be a better place, I assure you.

[Plow]

Max, I can explain what's lol:

It's funny for the same reason the Atheist meets God is hilarious to me.


Sure, there are a few people that believe the inane drivel spewed by the craziest there are.


And it's pretty damn hilarious not only what they're actually believing... but that people actually think the majority of the world is that retarded.

[Max™]

I don't care how many people actually believe it, the fact that it exists is hurting us as a species.


Note that technically I cannot consider myself an atheist, there COULD be a god, infinity is weird like that... but I do not think there is any reason to expect that any such deity is concerned over whether Jewish people eat pigs... they are not something to be worshiped.

If they were, they would show up and say "hey, you're all a bunch of assholes, especially you, Max™, now quit being fuckups and listen to the word of Me."


I'm not going to take the word of some goddamn fucking nutjob who claimed to be a prophet, thanks, if I want to listen to crazy people spout insane bullshit, I'll go hang out downtown with the bums, or watch Fox News.


I have a fully functioning brain, I can ask questions and seek answers, I'm sure you can as well, more people should try it. It's a good thing.

[Sonomaa]

where is the jedi?

[thomassmith]

Not another religion thread ! Seriously everyday I come on the forums I see "are you religious etc so on". People keep doing these topics so they get a million replies to it so they feel like it is important. Threads discussing religion on the internet will never move beyond endless bickering and no real answers.

[Faris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVZ7MLQorwA

how valid is Deedat's comments on the bible?

[Plow]

I don't care how many people actually believe it, the fact that it exists is hurting us as a species.


Note that technically I cannot consider myself an atheist, there COULD be a god, infinity is weird like that... but I do not think there is any reason to expect that any such deity is concerned over whether Jewish people eat pigs... they are not something to be worshiped.

If they were, they would show up and say "hey, you're all a bunch of assholes, especially you, Max™, now quit being fuckups and listen to the word of Me."


I'm not going to take the word of some goddamn fucking nutjob who claimed to be a prophet, thanks, if I want to listen to crazy people spout insane bullshit, I'll go hang out downtown with the bums, or watch Fox News.


I have a fully functioning brain, I can ask questions and seek answers, I'm sure you can as well, more people should try it. It's a good thing.

It's silly to say it's hurting us as a species because people believe one extreme end.


Why is it good to question one side but when the other side questions back, it's suddenly bad for the world?

[Neosutra]

It's silly to say it's hurting us as a species because people believe one extreme end.


Why is it good to question one side but when the other side questions back, it's suddenly bad for the world?

Do you seriously ignore everything everyone else posts and just repeat this same argument over and over?

"But religion does good!"

And as for the links I posted, I pulled out the ones that specifically cited scientific papers and problems with the Quran, notably embryonic formation and the mountains/earthquakes argument. But knowing that you read the first line and assumed you had a grasp of all the sources made me lulz a bit.

[Max™]

Is it good or bad when little kids realize that their parents, and not Santa, brought the christmas presents?

Is it good or bad to encourage people to question everything, and never accept any answer they are not comfortable with?


Is it good or bad to believe lies handed down for generations?


What good has religion ever done, that would not have been done were we a more logical species?


We are an immature race, we still believe in bogeymen and fairy tales, and we have NUCLEAR FUCKING WEAPONS... no good will come of that.

[Neosutra]

Is it good or bad when little kids realize that their parents, and not Santa, brought the christmas presents?

Is it good or bad to encourage people to question everything, and never accept any answer they are not comfortable with?


Is it good or bad to believe lies handed down for generations?


What good has religion ever done, that would not have been done were we a more logical species?


We are an immature race, we still believe in bogeymen and fairy tales, and we have NUCLEAR FUCKING WEAPONS... no good will come of that.

Plow: But religion has done some good!

Am I doing it right?

[Plow]

Do you seriously ignore everything everyone else posts and just repeat this same argument over and over?

"But religion does good!"

Not what I said in the least. You should really go away when max and miz want to talk, you make their side look really damn stupid.

And as for the links I posted, I pulled out the ones that specifically cited scientific papers and problems with the Quran, notably embryonic formation and the mountains/earthquakes argument. But knowing that you read the first line and assumed you had a grasp of all the sources made me lulz a bit.

I read a decent amount of the embryonic formation one. It's the one I referenced.


You clearly did not.

[Max™]

Still waiting, what good has religion done, which would not have come to pass if we were a more logical and educated species?


For the record, yes, I am in fact stating that religion is the haven for the weakminded and illogical, don't like it? Tough shit, read a book and educate yourself.


Too long has it been an unwritten rule that you do not question another persons faith, yet I can get the scientific pursuits I've been working on my whole life pooh-poohed and put in the same category, as a belief?

Fuck that, I don't believe in science, and I don't believe in god. Hopefully more people will wake up and see what a farce the whole thing is before we kill ourselves off.

[Neosutra]

I read a decent amount of the embryonic formation one. It's the one I referenced.
You clearly did not.

You referenced mudd and clay semantics and skipped the:


In an effort to show the scientific accuracy of the Koran, Muslim's are quick to bring up the claim of embryology revealed in stunning accuracy, before man discovered for himself. Muslims love to tell the story of how professor Keith L. Moore, the former anatomist at the University of Toronto, was impressed with the Koran’s embryological information.

However many Muslim are completely unaware that all of the information in the Qur'an about embryology had already been revealed many different times, centuries before hand. Furthermore, some of the information is scientifically inaccurate.

But don't take my word for it, early Muslim doctors, like Ibn-Qayyim, were first to blow the whistle when they saw the Koranic material, mirrored a Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD. In 1983 Basim Musallam, Director of the Centre of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Cambridge concluded, "The stages of development which the Qur'an and Hadith established for believers agreed perfectly with Galen's scientific account....There is no doubt that medieval thought appreciated this agreement between the Qur'an and Galen, for Arabic science employed the same Qur'anic terms to describe the Galenic stages" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 54) In other words when it comes to embryology the Qur'an merely echoes the scientific knowledge man had already discovered 450 years earlier.

Samuel ha-Yehudi was a 2nd century Jewish physician, and one of many with an interest in embryology . The embryo was called peri habbetten (fruit of the body) and develops as golem (formless, rolled-up thing); shefir meruqqam (embroidered foetus - shefir means amniotic sac); 'ubbar (something carried); v'alad (child); v'alad shel qayama (noble or viable child) and ben she-kallu chadashav (child whose months have been completed). (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 77)

J. Needham spent almost 60 pages in his book "A history of embryology", discussing ancient Greek, Indian and Egyptian embryology, than in less than 1 page he dismisses the entire Arabic tradition by concluding that "Arabic science ... was not of great help to embryology". After listing some of the verses in the Qur'an about embryology he dismisses them as "a seventh-century echo of Aristotle and the Ayer-veda" . (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 82), in other words a mixture of Greek and ancient Indian teachings.

And what about professor Keith L. Moore, once at the University of Toronto, who Muslims love to quote as a scientist who saw the light of the Koran? If you buy Moore’s latest sixth edition University textbook called "The developing human", he actually directs his readers to read an essay by Basim Musallam, who we just quoted. who shows that the Koran merely echoes what Greek doctor "Galen" wrote 450 years earlier. It seems Dr. Moore is not as impressed today. (B. Musallam, The human embryo in Arabic scientific and religious thought, in, G. R. Dunstan (ed.) (University of Exeter Press, 1990) The human embryo: Aristotle and the Arabic and European traditions, pp. 32-46)

But hey, religion does some good right Plow? Good that we wouldnt have done without it right?

[thomassmith]

Oh snap ! It's on Neo and Plow + religion !! Let the fun begin.

[Plow]

Is it good or bad when little kids realize that their parents, and not Santa, brought the christmas presents?

Don't think it matters? The message behind giving out gifts is still the same.

Is it good or bad to encourage people to question everything, and never accept any answer they are not comfortable with?

Uh, obviously good? So why can't people accept answers they are comfortable with? And why can't people question the other direction?

Is it good or bad to believe lies handed down for generations?

Who decides when a story becomes a lie? Stories are used to teach everything from practical application of mathematics to why you shouldn't scream "emergency" for no reason. I think it's quite an effective method for teaching, so if by "lie" you mean "any religious story, proverb, etc.," then I supposed I'd say yeah, "lying" is one of the best ways to pass them down.

What good has religion ever done, that would not have been done were we a more logical species?

I'm not sure what you're expecting from this. It gives guidelines. What good has teaching someone basic mathematics done, that they wouldn't have figured out eventually? Accelerated the rate? So why can't people use stories of morality to accelerate the rate of human social development?

It's disappointing to see so much of a belief of superiority from the physics crowd, because they feel their chosen field is "the important one." I could go off anytime about how the advancement of society and political relations are "what's really important," and how it's disgusting that people are choosing to dedicate their lives to making sure 2+2 really equals 4 when they could be helping, but the audacity...

We are an immature race, we still believe in bogeymen and fairy tales, and we have NUCLEAR FUCKING WEAPONS... no good will come of that.

We're always going to believe in fairy tales. We, as a species, love our art. To not believe what they're saying makes a story feel weak. Even knowing it's in someone's imagination, a great story is as real as you want it to be.

[Plow]

You referenced mudd and clay semantics and skipped the:

Try reading the shit you just copypastad?

It says nothing about Muslim science being *wrong*, it simply states that it was largely shit people already knew.

[Mizango]

Oh snap ! It's on Neo and Plow + religion !! Let the fun begin.

Do you ever have anything relevant to say? You rubbed me the wrong way when you waltz into our Astrophysics thread simply to say (and I paraphrase) " I dont like or understand science". Really? Way to add to the discussion champ.

You seem to be someone just +1ing all over the place. Now before you get your feathers all ruffled take that as a slanted compliment because the alternative to +1ing would be a shot at your IQ.