What Religion are you?

[Faris]

what can you translate that will help us with understanding something scientifically that we currently don't know/can't prove?

If this book is so awesome, what can it help us advance with from where we are now? I want something specific, we could all use some good news. Enlighten us. I've read you say it predicted certain things. ok fine, but so what, what is it saying about science now. You say your religion is science and faith based, give me some science.

not stuff we already know, that it *predicted* (see posts above), but stuff we can know/learn in the future. the definition of predict seems to be what we don't know yet (but can know or learn), so what is it saying scientifically that we can study now and get working on so we know it in the future?

i typed alot and it all got deleted..

long story short:

cellular memory, and the mysterious stories about heart transplant patients having characteristics/attitudes of the original owner of the heart.
you can google those stories on the net, lots of them are available.

but also, i'd like to remind you that the Quran is not a Book of Science; its a book of signs.
its not going to give you details on how so and so is done and scientificly explain it.


"Have they not travelled through the land, and have they hearts wherewith to understand and ears wherewith to hear? Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind"
أَفَلَمۡ يَسِيرُواْ فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ فَتَكُونَ لَهُمۡ قُلُوبٌ۬ يَعۡقِلُونَ بِہَآ أَوۡ ءَاذَانٌ۬ يَسۡمَعُونَ بِہَا‌ۖ فَإِنَّہَا لَا تَعۡمَى ٱلۡأَبۡصَـٰرُ وَلَـٰكِن تَعۡمَى ٱلۡقُلُوبُ ٱلَّتِى فِى ٱلصُّدُورِ (٤٦

The Quran Miracle Encyclopedia

[chiyio]

If believing there is an invisible, green (wait, what?) basketball floating around your head makes me a greenbasketballist... I am an agreenbasketballist. I do not believe there is an invisible green basketball floating around your head. No grey area, I do not believe it.


All this page serves to prove is that everyone loves to have labels for everyone... except themselves. The ones on them are never acceptable.

neo is going to have a field day, I gave you a god with a definition, as likely as any, that you denied.

but seriously, I'll answer any questions if you have any

That's the problems with gods, once they have a definition, nobody can find a reason to believe in them. Nobody is flying a flaming chariot across the sky, no death god turns us into skeletons we just decompose, there is no turtle holding the earth up, it's a sphere.

There's just no modern definition of a god that would make one believe in one. it's all a "basket god", and the basket is getting ever smaller.

basically, there are two baskets, the "god" basket and the other basket'

big fire orb goes across in the sky, totally random, in the god basket. but wait, we figure it out, there's a star, and we orbit it, goes in the other basket. we figure these things out one by one, and they go in the other basket. NEVER has something gone from the other basket back to the "god" basket because we cant' explain it. evolution predicted DNA for example.

planets, evolution, DNA, fucking everything. never have we ever found anything that has to go back into the god basket.

There has NEVER been something that can't be explained and has to go back into the god basket. we've never observed anything that can only be explained with magic, EVER.

[Gunitsoldier]

Atheist, I need proof of something before I dedicate my entire life to it. Gullible(sp?) much?

[chiyio]

i typed alot and it all got deleted..

long story short:

cellular memory, and the mysterious stories about heart transplant patients having characteristics/attitudes of the original owner of the heart.
you can google those stories on the net, lots of them are available.

but also, i'd like to remind you that the Quran is not a Book of Science; its a book of signs.
its not going to give you details on how so and so is done and scientificly explain it.


"Have they not travelled through the land, and have they hearts wherewith to understand and ears wherewith to hear? Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind"
أَفَلَمۡ يَسِيرُواْ فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ فَتَكُونَ لَهُمۡ قُلُوبٌ۬ يَعۡقِلُونَ بِہَآ أَوۡ ءَاذَانٌ۬ يَسۡمَعُونَ بِہَا‌ۖ فَإِنَّہَا لَا تَعۡمَى ٱلۡأَبۡصَـٰرُ وَلَـٰكِن تَعۡمَى ٱلۡقُلُوبُ ٱلَّتِى فِى ٱلصُّدُورِ (٤٦

The Quran Miracle Encyclopedia

er, what does the Quran have to do with heart transplants. A lot of the initial and successful research on artificial hearts and transplants was done here at the U (of utah), I don't think they studied the quran to help with that. "mysterious stories" is laughable for a belief and especially for a scientific system.

If it doesn't give you details on how so and so is done, what good is it. Sounds like all the work was done without it. (if anything, since it was in utah, they used the book of mormon *rolls eyes* some important tv component was developed here too, yay)

Let me know when it actually helps DEVELOP something, instead of predict cryptically afterwards.

what passage can you quote that points to some future discovery, instead of well, kinda, if you read it just right, sorta points to something we've figure out already independent of it just fine.


"Have they not travelled through the land, and have they hearts wherewith to understand and ears wherewith to hear? Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind"

goes blind to what? I get my eyes can't see, but my heart is blind to what, specifically? Like, really specifically, no wishy washy shit. What is my heart in my breast (tee hee) blind to?

The DMV here has a book of signs as well, should we worship that? As far as books of signs go is might be more up to date and useful.

[chiyio]

Atheist, I need proof of something before I dedicate my entire life to it. Gullible(sp?) much?

exactly. though I get you're trying to be a troll.

we're not asking for "in god we don't trust", we just want the 1954 adding of "in god we trust" taken out.

*could be wrong on date, but close enough*

dedicate your life to whatever you feel is important.

people act like we're the ones being pushy, we're just pushing back to neutral.

pledge was good enough from 1856 on as it was, what changed? lets just change it back and we'll stop picking on the poor majority.

[Plow]

neo is going to have a field day, I gave you a god with a definition, as likely as any, that you denied.

but seriously, I'll answer any questions if you have any

That's the problems with gods, once they have a definition, nobody can find a reason to believe in them. Nobody is flying a flaming chariot across the sky, no death god turns us into skeletons we just decompose, there is no turtle holding the earth up, it's a sphere.

There's just no modern definition of a god that would make one believe in one. it's all a "basket god", and the basket is getting ever smaller.

basically, there are two baskets, the "god" basket and the other basket'

big fire orb goes across in the sky, totally random, in the god basket. but wait, we figure it out, there's a star, and we orbit it, goes in the other basket. we figure these things out one by one, and they go in the other basket. NEVER has something gone from the other basket back to the "god" basket because we cant' explain it. evolution predicted DNA for example.

planets, evolution, DNA, fucking everything. never have we ever found anything that has to go back into the god basket.

There has NEVER been something that can't be explained and has to go back into the god basket. we've never observed anything that can only be explained with magic, EVER.

I went to God just to see.


And I was looking at me.

[Faris]

er, what does the Quran have to do with heart transplants. A lot of the initial and successful research on artificial hearts and transplants was done here at the U (of utah), I don't think they studied the quran to help with that. "mysterious stories" is laughable for a belief and especially for a scientific system.

If it doesn't give you details on how so and so is done, what good is it. Sounds like all the work was done without it. (if anything, since it was in utah, they used the book of mormon *rolls eyes* some important tv component was developed here too, yay)

Let me know when it actually helps DEVELOP something, instead of predict cryptically afterwards.

what passage can you quote that points to some future discovery, instead of well, kinda, if you read it just right, sorta points to something we've figure out already independent of it just fine.


"Have they not travelled through the land, and have they hearts wherewith to understand and ears wherewith to hear? Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind"

goes blind to what? I get my eyes can't see, but my heart is blind to what, specifically? Like, really specifically, no wishy washy shit. What is my heart in my breast (tee hee) blind to?

<_>

I think what you want scientific explanations...

but also, i'd like to remind you that the Quran is not a Book of Science; its a book of signs.
its not going to give you details on how so and so is done and scientificly explain it.

and none of them are false...check out the site, stop being a pussy

[chiyio]

I went to God just to see.


And I was looking at me.

so we/people/humanitcy is/are god (whatever definition of god you're using)? I realize google can't find you an answer in 15 minutes, but honestly, I gave a few pretty well thought out posts (well, I tried anyway), and that's the best shit you can come up with?

Maybe cow or somebody will have some serious responses.

[chiyio]

<_>

I think what you want scientific explanations...



and none of them are false...check out the site, stop being a pussy

Utah DMV


also has a kick ass list of signs, that are much more useful to modern day life.

I don't need yet another book that tells me shit I already know.

How is not needed info I already know making me a pussy exactly, don't pussy foot around it, how is knowing something I already know a benefit?

ugh, I bought the baiting of a crazy troll, I feel dirty I'll respond to any serious replies though in a few hours if there are any. (ie, no crazies/fira&plow)

[Aurara]

Atheist all the way. i hate all religion because its all a crock of bullshit.

[Plow]

so we/people/humanitcy is/are god (whatever definition of god you're using)? I realize google can't find you an answer in 15 minutes, but honestly, I gave a few pretty well thought out posts (well, I tried anyway), and that's the best shit you can come up with?

Maybe cow or somebody will have some serious responses.

It's a lyric from a Marylin Manson song.

I'm not arguing with you on rather God exists or not. My only comment was on the fact that the semantics arguments are retarded, everyone wants to define their own label as super extra special.

[Neosutra]

Considering there's no way for me to know about whether there's an invisible green basketball zooming around your head (and hey, if you want to get extra complicated, for all I know there really is one that exists only for you), I would likely reserve judgment. An Agnostic doesn't really waste time thinking about it. They take the information given and put it in their back pocket until they know the truth.

I read your previous response and will leave it alone as you basically just repeat the same argument over and over when I counter it, so I assume that is the equivalent to saying "I disagree" and will move on from there.

You dont think atheists "take the information given and put it in their back pocket until they know the truth"? The problem come that there is NO evidence/information to put in your "back pocket" for any of these spiritual concepts. What you are asking us to do is just go "well anything is possible" to absolutely -any- concept put forth. If a man runs up to me and shouts "THERE IS AN INVISIBLE DRAGON CHASING ME!", in your perspective I shouldnt assume this man is sick or a liar, because "hey, anything can happen and I dont know everything about the universe". It is silly and irresponsible to suggest we must keep all hypothesis' as viable, even when observation/experiment tells us they are wrong or highly unlikely. Just "keeping options open" doesnt make you an agnostic.. Most atheists would become theist if peer reviewed reasonable evidence was provided for the theist case, so it's not like "being open to evidence to the counter argument" makes you agnostic. There just isnt ANYTHING to back that up.

Also, Im really not sure why you keep going into the "well we dont know XXX about the universe". Couldnt you just quote the "god of the gaps" argument over and over and save us the time?

[Effluo]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Quite honestly, what does it really matter to any of you who believes what? This is a subject where agreeing to disagree is probably the best course.

No one is going to turn a non-believer into a believer and vice versa in this thread. The same things have been stated ad nauseam, and for what reason? There is no winning side to this....

[Mizango]

I just get tired of y'all niggas knockin' on my door at 7am on the weekends when im off asking me if I'm saved and shit.

[Neosutra]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Quite honestly, what does it really matter to any of you who believes what? This is a subject where agreeing to disagree is probably the best course.

No one is going to turn a non-believer into a believer and vice versa in this thread. The same things have been stated ad nauseam, and for what reason? There is no winning side to this....

For that matter, what does it matter what is fact or fiction at all? Why should we have determine what is truth or lie, fact or superstition. What is the difference if people have no foundation on reality because mythology is treated as an equal to physics/biology/chemistry?

Luckily for us nothing anyone believes effects their actions in any way and thus people can believe whatever they want and it wont ever effect us.

Right? Right?

No.

[Effluo]

Lies, we don't walk through the ghetto when it's dark out. You know it's atleast 9am before we knock on your door.

[Aurara]

I just get tired of y'all niggas knockin' on my door at 7am on the weekends when im off asking me if I'm saved and shit.

you think thats bad, try getting visited 3-4 times a month -_-;;

Edit: i dont understand why a group of people(wont name names) chooses to continuously come to the same house, even after they are told no, and that they dont want to be accepted by jesus+god/alla/whoeverthefuck they worship. cant they just accept "NO" as a good enough answer and be done?

[Effluo]

For that matter, what does it matter what is fact or fiction at all? Why should we have determine what is truth or lie, fact or superstition. What is the difference if people have no foundation on reality because mythology is treated as an equal to physics/biology/chemistry?

Luckily for us nothing anyone believes effects their actions in any way and thus people can believe whatever they want and it wont ever effect us.

Right? Right?

No.

oh what the hell, Neo. Now you're just being an ass to be an ass... I sure as hell hope that's a different Descartes you're quoting in your sig, or else your quoting a good 'old God loving Catholic...

[Zosi]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Quite honestly, what does it really matter to any of you who believes what? This is a subject where agreeing to disagree is probably the best course.

No one is going to turn a non-believer into a believer and vice versa in this thread. The same things have been stated ad nauseam, and for what reason? There is no winning side to this....

You do realize that Einstein's quote is about naturalistic non-deist religion, right? Einstein's "religion" was one of wonderment about the natural world, very much the opposite of the supernatural religions trumpeted by most and a view that's quite compatible with a scientific world-view. Here's a few more quotes to make it more clear, so you avoid misquoting him in the future:

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth."

Edited to remove copypasta'd wiki links.

[Yuri-G]

I just get tired of y'all niggas knockin' on my door at 7am on the weekends when im off asking me if I'm saved and shit.

7 am? really? if someone tried that shit on me I'd slam the door in their faces... right after inviting them to step in. fuck that.