Coming Out?

[BRP]

Lets out Kuya as a homosexual so our arguments will be valid?

[archibaldcrane]

I hate labels, STOP SAYING WORDS!

[ZarakiKujata]

fuck yeah, i get my own category

Only because you are neither and you are also the only Hadji posting in this thread/on these forums.

[Kuya]

Mainly this:
If a legislator votes against gay rights, and shows through his reasoning for doing so that he isn't doing it out of ignorance, hatred, or fear of/about homosexuals, then I won't feel that they need to explain how they could possibly hate, be ignorant or fearful of homosexuals considering their own knowledge of homosexuality.

A closeted-gay legislator needs to make an argument that makes sense, that doesn't make them a liar (and yes, appeals to fear of homosexuals when you are a homosexual is dishonest behavior) for their sexuality to not matter. If the legislator makes their own sexuality matter in the discussion, then they need to be honest about their sexuality.

I still can't believe you're trying to justify it. I've seen better rationalizations for torture.

In your argument you've somehow held up politicians who are gay to higher standards because they should "understand homosexuality better", the problem, and i put it in parenthesys, is that you did not define what that phrase even means.

Ignoring the first paragraph because it confuses me, you insist on equating this as if it were some sort of scandal where a politician cheats on their spouse. I already made the point before, and it is becoming annoying to make it again, the politician may say that homosexual behaviour is not moral whilst engaging in it himself, but it makes no sense for those who don't consider homosexual behaviour inmoral to make it an issue if the politician himself engages in it. It is contradictory. You're not supposed to be saying "Aha, look, you're gay too!" if you don't actually think there's anything wrong with it, and take note that the politician we discussed in the last thread wasn't even calling homosexuality inmoral, he just opposed gay marriage and some other gay rights issue.

Your point simply made no sense. A politician needs to not lie in order for their sexuality not to matter? Why? What exactly did you say to justify that? You've not shown outing to be anything but political point scoring.

All these statements with no elaboration just put me in a bad mood.

[Faris]

Only because you are neither and you are also the only Hadji posting in this thread/on these forums.

:'( hadji...i'm truly honored. I heart you

[archibaldcrane]

All these statements with no elaboration just put me in a bad mood.

Mission accomplished I guess? There's nothing more to be gained here than pissing you off, since you don't even try to understand any argument other than "no, never, under no circumstances".

Round 2 appears to be the same as round 1. Feel free to skip the back and forth next time if you like, we aren't changing each other's minds.

[Cream Soda]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6...6523179284.jpg


Edit: image shack sucks

[Kuya]

Mission accomplished I guess? There's nothing more to be gained here than pissing you off, since you don't even try to understand any argument other than "no, never, under no circumstances".

Round 2 appears to be the same as round 1. Feel free to skip the back and forth next time if you like, we aren't changing each other's minds.

I could have told you that this would go nowhere.

But let's get real here, you did not come to this because you concluded it from some philosophizing, rather you liked the idea of outing someone who opposes gay rights and are now trying to rationalize what you want. If this were a product of reason, you wouldn't be making meek statements about how their homosexuality should compell them to support gay rights.

[Kwijiboe]

Interesting argument about outing people. Gonna have to side with Kuya on this one, but not for the reasons that the opposing argument was stupid, but because it was hypocritical. You can't subscribe to a principle, and then disregard it when it is unaligned with your beliefs; whatever they may be.

Who are the alleged homosexual politicians anyway? I don't follow that issue closely, it doesn't hit close to home, so to speak.

[archibaldcrane]

@ Kuya I understand you desperately want to believe that you've forced me to backtrack into some corner just so I wouldn't have to change my opinion about the core of the matter.

It's coming through loud and clear.

The point of outing isn't to rile up the anti-gay forces in order to hurt someone's career - it's simply to make them intelligently defend their votes against gay rights where they had otherwise been silent or fear-mongering.

You act like people on the "outing in this circumstance is acceptable" are taking delight in whatever homophobic backlash would occur. It would occur, sure, but that's an unfortunate side-effect, not the intent.

The main problem is that it's a largely ineffective tactic. Outing these homophobic assholes doesn't really make them face the music - they have spent way too long being duplicitous cowardly politicians, and they continue to do so even after getting arrested for soliciting gay sex from a police officer in a public bathroom or whatever. There's some outrage and shame, sure, but they don't really come out with a "in light of the fact that I obviously suck cock, I feel I should clarify why I actively work against gay rights" manifesto.

The ineffectiveness of outing in eliciting truth in politicians is its biggest problem.

[archibaldcrane]

Here's Dan Savage's take on the issue:

Outrage and Outing | Slog | The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper

[ZarakiKujata]

What proof is there that Crist is a fudgepacker? I mean he has a beard and everything.

[BRP]

not for the reasons that the opposing argument was stupid, but because it was hypocritical.

ummmmm

[ThattJackal]

What proof is there that Crist is a fudgepacker? I mean he has a beard and everything.

I think Crist's homosexuality is almost as widely accepted in general political circles as Anderson Cooper's Homosexuality. And - when did he grow a beard? He's always been, from what I've seen, a clean cut white haired dude who has never had a girlfriend (Except for recently - when he was thought to be a possible VP candidate for McCain.)

[Kuya]

The point of outing isn't to rile up the anti-gay forces in order to hurt someone's career - it's simply to make them intelligently defend their votes against gay rights where they had otherwise been silent or fear-mongering.

You're joking, right?

It would occur, sure, but that's an unfortunate side-effect, not the intent.

I like how you put it. Unfortunate side-effect. lol

[Kuya]

Here's Dan Savage's take on the issue:

Outrage and Outing | Slog | The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper

Why did you post that?

[archibaldcrane]

Why did you post that?

Because it's an interesting read.

And no, I'm not joking, that is actually what I think the point of outing someone should be.

Am I blowing your mind Kuya?

[Kuya]

Well, you're blowing something.

[archibaldcrane]

Thank god you aren't going to out me for it.

[Kuya]

I disagree with you, so i'm gonna.