Surge Protector or UPS?

[arus2001]

Had the joy of waking up to my computer bricking after a power outage hit during sleep. Went through the system's tech support, tried various this and thats, but nothing would get it. Since it's still under warranty it's being sent off and I'll likely be a few weeks without my good PC.

While I don't know what went bad, it's safe to assume it was related to the power outage. The strips I have now are old, and I'm honestly not sure how well they were built to protect (if at all) since they were leftovers my dad had when revamping his entertainment center.

I figure a UPS would be better since some searches suggest such, but I don't know what to shoot or if there are any good deals. Ideas?

[Cephius]

It's a good thing to have. It's not so much protecting against surges, but also voltage regulation as well. Computer parts are incredibly sensitive to dips or rises in voltage, and can certainly be damaged by them. I personally like CyberPower UPS's, the good ones run around 80 bucks and have a LCD on them so you can monitor power input/output and estimated battery life remaining.

[Viq]

I'm partial to APC's Back-UPS line. I run nearly everything in my apartment through these

[Shojin]

I use APC atm. Only problem I've had with them is that they randomly shut off, however this happens rarely. I'm pretty sure it has to do with me overloading it, as I have quite a number of high power stuff plugged in, I really need to get one with a higher VA. No problems other than that, storm season here, so they are pretty handy to have at least for me in blackouts.

[arus2001]

I'm partial to APC's Back-UPS line. I run nearly everything in my apartment through these

Looked into those and saw a few versions (like v550, v900, etc.) which naturally get more expensive the higher up you go. Since I don't plan on putting much more on it other than my PC tower, monitor, and speakers, do you have any idea what would be adequate? I think I saw the v550 on sale at one of the sites for like $39, which would work for me if it'll be good.

[cdgreg]

this topic may help you

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/78257...elp-input.html

[Minions]

Long story short, Get a UPS, Worth the money; or enjoy your cheap surge protector and or fried shit when you power blinks on an off constantly. (a brownout)

[arus2001]

Yeah, brownouts have been a bit of an issue lately around here. Seems like any time a storm hits (no matter how mild) it'll flicker at least once. Around this time last year, there was also a bad storm that knocked power out for 2-7 days for a lot of the area, too. Joy of the boonies. :/

May look into a house version of a SP or whatever the other thread mentioned, too. This place is old, sometimes I doubt the consistency of power in my room (speakers like to pop when other lights in the house are toggled), and even though my dad's an electrician, I'm not sure how much he's adhered to the mentioned 1990 power standards or whatever, if it hadn't forced retrofitting when it came into effect. If I'm lucky, maybe I can trick him into flipping the bill.

Edit: Also still uncertain on which model UPS I'd need. Anyone have an idea on what amount of power use from a PC and other vitals would translate to? I don't know the exact wattage of my power supply since I have everything boxed up at the moment, but I'd definitely say it's at least 500w since the vid card is newish.

[westom]

Yeah, brownouts have been a bit of an issue lately around here. Seems like any time a storm hits (no matter how mild) it'll flicker at least once. Around this time last year, there was also a bad storm that knocked power out for 2-7 days for a lot of the area, too. Joy of the boonies.

Apparently assumed is that power loss is destructive. It is not. However power loss can be preceded by a surge. After all, something had to cause that power interruption.

View numeric specs for the UPS. It does not claim to protect from surges. In fact the typical UPS connects a computer directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. How does its relay (that takes tens of milliseconds to trip) stop surges (that are done in microseconds)? View its numeric specs. No surge protection claimed.

UPS has one function - to provide power so that data is not lost.

Another posted a popular myth:
> Computer parts are incredibly sensitive to dips or rises in voltage, and
> can certainly be damaged by them.

View industry spec numbers even before 1970 - before PCs even existed. The chart, where voltage dips occur has this phrase in capital letters: "No Damage Region".

AC electric dropping by more than 5% is harmful to motorized appliances. Computers are required to operate normally - even start up - when voltages drop 25%. Whereas electronics in the 1970s had to withstand 600 volts without damage, Intel specs require computers to withstand thousands of voltage without damage.

Since then, international standards (ie IEC1000-4-2) now require more. Interface semiconductors withstand 2000 and 15,000 volts without damage. For those who need to see published numbers, a data sheet for one such semiconductor: (sorry, the system will not let me post it in a human friendly manner)
Triple w, maxim-ic dot com, slash en slash ds slash MAX1487E-MAX491E.pdf

All computers have significant internal protection. Protection that can be overwhelmed if the homeowner lets the rare and destructive surge enter his building. That surge must be earthed which means before a surge even enters the building.

Above confront popular myths - with numbers and professional sources. Brownouts are not destructive to electronics - only a threat to motorized appliances. All appliances contain protection. Computers are required to be most robust. But if you do not earth the rare and destructive surge - if you let it inside the building - then protection inside some appliance can be overwhelmed.

[arus2001]

Regardless of fact or fiction, shit broke and it's inconveniencing me while it's getting fixed. I want to make sure it doesn't happen again (especially once warranty's gone). Still looking into 'whole house' options since it's sounding like the best bet for literal hardware safety, but I still have little quibbles about internal wiring that make me feel a surge protector may be wise for the continual little rushes that cause my earlier mentioned speaker pop.

Also need to make sure some of my room outlets are good, but I don't know where the tools for such a task are hiding around the house here. I'd rather not have to rearrange my room again, but if it's needed to make sure my PC's connected to a clean and stable outlet since feeding long cords would just have me tripping over shit, I'll do it.

[bungiefan]

Online UPS systems will run all power through the battery, even when the power is on, so the battery can absorb surges, and can kick in to keep the voltage constant in case of a brownout.

Surge protectors only protect against overage of voltage, not brownouts, which can be just as damaging to your circuits.

[Minions]

Apparently assumed is that power loss is destructive. It is not. However power loss can be preceded by a surge. After all, something had to cause that power interruption.

View numeric specs for the UPS. It does not claim to protect from surges. In fact the typical UPS connects a computer directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. How does its relay (that takes tens of milliseconds to trip) stop surges (that are done in microseconds)? View its numeric specs. No surge protection claimed.

UPS has one function - to provide power so that data is not lost.

Another posted a popular myth:
> Computer parts are incredibly sensitive to dips or rises in voltage, and
> can certainly be damaged by them.

View industry spec numbers even before 1970 - before PCs even existed. The chart, where voltage dips occur has this phrase in capital letters: "No Damage Region".

AC electric dropping by more than 5% is harmful to motorized appliances. Computers are required to operate normally - even start up - when voltages drop 25%. Whereas electronics in the 1970s had to withstand 600 volts without damage, Intel specs require computers to withstand thousands of voltage without damage.

Since then, international standards (ie IEC1000-4-2) now require more. Interface semiconductors withstand 2000 and 15,000 volts without damage. For those who need to see published numbers, a data sheet for one such semiconductor: (sorry, the system will not let me post it in a human friendly manner)
Triple w, maxim-ic dot com, slash en slash ds slash MAX1487E-MAX491E.pdf

All computers have significant internal protection. Protection that can be overwhelmed if the homeowner lets the rare and destructive surge enter his building. That surge must be earthed which means before a surge even enters the building.

Above confront popular myths - with numbers and professional sources. Brownouts are not destructive to electronics - only a threat to motorized appliances. All appliances contain protection. Computers are required to be most robust. But if you do not earth the rare and destructive surge - if you let it inside the building - then protection inside some appliance can be overwhelmed.

You can believe what you want to believe, when your pc stops working first hand after a brownout, come back and talk to me about what doesn't cause electronics not to work.

[westom]

... but I still have little quibbles about internal wiring that make me feel a surge protector may be wise for the continual little rushes that cause my earlier mentioned speaker pop.

Even knob and tube wiring is more than sufficient for powering electronics. Household wiring causes no electronics damage. But can create human safety threats. A simple test. Get an incandescent light bulb (or lamp) and something that consumes large power (ie clothes iron). Power the lamp from that outlet. Then turn on the iron. Does the large iron current cause that lamp to dim? If not, no wiring problems. If yes, then you must find a human safety threat where household wiring is not sufficiently conductive (ie a loose screw or wire nut in that or some other junction box).

Speaker pops are only noise - trivial - but get some all excited only because it sounds loud. If you don't like that sound, then find the appliance that creates noise. Then install filters on that appliance. Only because you don't like pops. Not because it harms anything.

[arus2001]

Speaker pops are only noise - trivial - but get some all excited only because it sounds loud. If you don't like that sound, then find the appliance that creates noise. Then install filters on that appliance. Only because you don't like pops. Not because it harms anything.

Trust me, it's damaged my speakers (or more specifically, the subwoofer). And no, I'm not someone that cranked them to max and blew 'em out. Hell, I rarely have my volume up past the third notch of eight.

[westom]

Trust me, it's damaged my speakers (or more specifically, the subwoofer). And no, I'm not someone that cranked them to max and blew 'em out. Hell, I rarely have my volume up past the third notch of eight.

Then you must find and fix the appliance that is creating noise.

Meanwhile, required in every audio power supply is to make such noise irrelevant. Why is the power supply so marginal?

[westom]

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