Randomly Ridiculous FFXI to FFXIV

[arus2001]

All I can really add to this conversation is that your idea is exponentially more retarded than exp loss.

Not really. It's different paths to the same destination where more casual play, and by proxy less serious difficulty in most cases, isn't slapping you with a universal penalty often designed to bloat play time for those who have plenty to offer. There is absolutely nothing about whacking a Colibri that teaches me about how to act in Dynamis, for example.

Deep down, why is it people want a fear of death? Is it to inspire others to bring their A Game? Personally, if I'm fighting something, my starting objective would be to take out the easiest targets first. This means weakened players, who on top of lesser HP/MP pools, can't attack/cast as often, either. If I ignore them, their contributions will add up and they'd eventually unweaken and become a greater threat, too.

If mobs behaved like this, this then becomes a battle of juggling resources amongst the living members and determining if whether or not resurrecting a party member is prudent. Difficulty arguably increases as your party size diminishes, as well. However, this mechanic also ups the importance of abilities like Cover or building an alliance more defensively to either keep people from dying initially or to help keep them afloat in a weakened state. Let's face it, in XI, offense was king. Zerg it. Kill it before it kills you.

Outright calling a use of tactics from both the player and enemy end retarded strikes me as limiting the combat to what we know of XI. Frankly, I don't expect to be seeing Utsusemi again, and with that the easy mode style of play it brought to so many activities, including faster EXP gain. The recently added Fomor NMs, with their Level Up mechanics, can also be lent to increasing the difficulty of a mob based on certain conditions being met. Call 'em Rage Mode Lites if you want, but they basically serve a purpose in upping difficulty be it preventing WS, nuking, JA use, dying, or whatever SE feels appropriate.

[Sylvrdragon]

Max XP loss is 2800. You can get that back with two FOVs in Terrigan or a decent campaign battle.

2400 actually. Your point stands though (even more so).

[Kaylia]

All I can really add to this conversation is that your idea is exponentially more retarded than exp loss.

Also, exp loss vs durability are essentially the exact same thing. At the end of the day time = money. In FFXI the penalty was more harsh because the hassle of gaining efficient exp required building a party. I personally don't mind having to sink gold into armor repairs or having to re-up exp as long as the penalty is reasonable. However, I also think that death is something that should be feared in an MMO. In WoW the penalty is, in my opinion, much too light to be taken seriously. FFXI could have easily had a durability system and if the repairs were expensive people would still bitch.

tl;dr Time/Money/Exp/Durability are all the same thing.

As long "re-up exp" and "farming gold" can be accomplished while doing something fun, instead of going out of your way to get it back. I want to be rewarded for doing what I like to do, and not have my hand forced into some mindless grinding.

[miokomioko]

As long as I don't have to retrieve and loot my own dead body, any system would be fine.

[Kaylia]

As long as I don't have to retrieve and loot my own dead body, any system would be fine.

Always depend how it's done. If it takes 1-2 min top, I don't really care. If it would require you to run from jeuno to Dragon Airy, I will pass.

[jmc]

Always depend how it's done. If it takes 1-2 min top, I don't really care. If it would require you to run from jeuno to Dragon Airy, I will pass.

Need more graveyard!

Oh...wai....

[Celeras]

Ugh, why am I posting in this thread ~_~

Dieing in WoW was f'ing retarded, and I hated that you could actually explore/make progress getting somewhere by repeatedly dieing. I'll take home points over that any day of the week.

[Kaluuki]

I don't care if there's home points again, as long as I don't lose exp. There's nothing more frustrating than de-leveling after you get a new gear set.

[Kaylia]

Ugh, why am I posting in this thread ~_~

Dieing in WoW was f'ing retarded, and I hated that you could actually explore/make progress getting somewhere by repeatedly dieing. I'll take home points over that any day of the week.

It was so fun to die in valkurm dune entrance, only to get sent back to bastok.

I do appreciate a certain level of tension when I was exploring (let's say, the first time I go from bastok to jeuno), but wasting 20 minutes of my time because of some bullshit aggro isnt fun.

[LD]

Frankly, both are kinda stupid...'course in both cases, it's totally irrelevant at high levels. In WoW, you could be able to fly back to wherever you died. In FFXI you'll almost invariably be in a group and have someone raise you. If you don't, most places where you'd set your HP are the center of the world and provide easy access to everywhere.

The only thing I don't wanna see is death giving you a significant time penalty. I don't mean subtracting exp, cuz even then I'm still playing. I mean making it totally unreasonable for you to keep fighting. They do it in both FFXI and WoW (different conditions) and it's annoying. I'm paying to do something in this game, not nothing. Even a frustrating something is better than than nothing; you're gaining something. It's something you lost, but it's something.

[Kaylia]

In the current state of the game, death rarely cause significant downtime in WoW. Walking to your corpse can be annoying in certain specific situation, but never as much as it is in FFXI. Hell, even the 25% armor/10minute penalty is generally less time consuming than a hp in FFXI, and im not talking about the xp penalty.


I don't mind having to "homepoint", but unless they allow you to go back quickly to your location, it's bullshit.

[Celeras]

Its like you conveniently forget that there's at least two places to set your homepoint in every zone, and that the entire world is accessible via a 2 minute run from an OP/Telepoint save ToAU from an old world HP (which I dont even know if they changed that since I quit).

Not to mention that dieing while traveling can only be attributed to personal error to begin with.

[Lucavi]

Its like you conveniently forget that there's at least two places to set your homepoint in every zone, and that the entire world is accessible via a 2 minute run from an OP/Telepoint save ToAU from an old world HP (which I dont even know if they changed that since I quit).

Not to mention that dieing while traveling can only be attributed to personal error to begin with.

Doesn't mean its a good system at all. There is definitely room for improvement. I can't remember how many early- and mid-game parties were broken up due to some critical job getting pissed off that they died and would have to eat a long port back, only to disband from the party and end up with the entire party breaking up due to lack of replacements.

There should be a balance between carebear and outright frustration. When you have people quitting parties because of not being in the mood to head all the way back (and be honest, many times the trips were very far back if someone forgot to set a new HP or just wanted to keep their convenient HP back in town for an easy port), its time for a new system.

[LD]

I think the point is that it isn't a bad system either.

I think it's important to note the death needs a penalty and the point is for you to hate it enough to avoid it. It's the resurrection weakness thing that actually works against game play, because you're not playing. Not moving, not thinking, just waiting.

[Kaylia]

Its like you conveniently forget that there's at least two places to set your homepoint in every zone, and that the entire world is accessible via a 2 minute run from an OP/Telepoint save ToAU from an old world HP (which I dont even know if they changed that since I quit).

Not to mention that dieing while traveling can only be attributed to personal error to begin with.

It's like you conveniently forget that it's not convenient at all to set your homepoint anywhere far from a city. The time you might save for a death will be lost when you will be running back to the city later. It's not "better".

You also forget that not every class have access to teleport/warp spell, and while items partially make up for it, long cool down and level requirement prevent you from using them at time (and there is a large price tag involved with many). Not every class have access to sneak/invi either (particularly true long time ago).

Dying while traveling can only happen from personal error? Sneak/invi never wore off at a bad time? You never lagged? And god forbid you to miss evaluate the aggro distance or duration of your sneak. The only fair penalty is a cruel death to aggro and a 15 minutes walk.


The time wasted by a death in FFXI when there is no raise around is huge, and well above what it should be. Dying next to a healer isn't so bad, but when you're solo or without raise, it blows.

[Boom]

Looks like you can travel between crystals now so that should improve on the homepoint system.

Wonder how that will work if they're still considering airships and such.

[Kaylia]

Looks like you can travel between crystals now so that should improve on the homepoint system.

Wonder how that will work if they're still considering airships and such.

Yeah. Something like ff12 is probably going to work well, or at least, way better than 11.

That said, I really wish we had black chocobo "flight path" to fly above every area. I always enjoy seeing the world from a different perspective, and teleport kinda kill that aspect.

[Kaluuki]

I always enjoy seeing the world from a different perspective, and teleport kinda kill that aspect.

air ships are supposedly more relevant/used in XIV.

[Boom]

Airship with a look-down window perhaps?

[Kaylia]

air ships are supposedly more relevant/used in XIV.

Airship will be nice for sure if it's real time flying, but being able to fly close enough to see the monsters, the players and other details has its charm as well.