Randomly Ridiculous FFXI to FFXIV

[Lucavi]

Agreed, but I doubt we'll see something like that unless magic takes a more active role to cast, like... say.... the spellweaving system from Age of Conan.

That game had multiple spellcasting animations because you actually controlled some of the bigger spells in the game and had to push buttons to direct how strong it would become.

I don't want to see an active system like that, but I would like to see our characters struggle a bit more with the bigger spells - Mithra looked like they were really working to get off that spell with their Black Magic charging spell.

Perhaps there could be some sort of animation system tied into the level of your magic skills. Maybe when you are first using a spell you freshly learned, you'll struggle to gather the energy necessary to cast it, but when you're the equivalent of say... level 50, and you're throwing out the equivalent of fire I, all your character will have to do is snap their fingers to pop off the spell.

I mean, it kind of already existed in the game. Fire I took considerably less time to cast than Fire IV, which took considerably less time to cast than Flare. Simply attaching a different cast animation to each of those lengths of time would work.

[Kaylia]

I know it's something minor as well, but I would like to see different casting animations for different spells too, every single White Magic or Black Magic spell you get has the exact same casting animation, would be cool if there was some sort of diversity this time around. Maybe it's just me but I don't think Fire I should have the same casting animation as Flare II.

The more possible animations there is, the more memory it takes to run the game smoothly. I'm not against more animations, but the compromise between graphic/animation/effect isn't an easy one. Of course, they could always add option "turn off enhanced animation" or whatever if it caused problems, but the problem is usually more complicated than simply making new animations.

[Hyan]

Tell me, why everyone with programming knowledge were able to tell you before the release what chocobo racing would be like? We didn't even program the game, yet, it was obvious what could/couldn't be done.

SquareEnix should have known exactly what it would be like, and its not hard to explain why peolpe wouldnt like that content as well.

You took a guess, but SE might've had something else in mind at first. Maybe they had planned a solution for the limitations, but it ended up not working as intended. We don't know. It might be obvious that you can only have 80+80 inventory at once, but you can work around the issue. It could have been the same case here.

When you play a minigame within a game, you don't expect the same kind of balance. You can enjoy it occasionaly, without taking it too seriously.

Define "minigame within a game". Basically everything we do in-game is just a minigame within the game. What makes the minigame more than a minigame are the rewards that you get. If you add worthwhile rewards to Ballista, it stops being a minigame. Design wise, SE has probably put just as much work to that "minigame" as to other "minigames" like limbus, ENM's and so on. When there's no reward to go after you don't expect same kind of balance. As soon as there's a worthwhile reward though..

[Lucavi]

The more possible animations there is, the more memory it takes to run the game smoothly. I'm not against more animations, but the compromise between graphic/animation/effect isn't an easy one. Of course, they could always add option "turn off enhanced animation" or whatever if it caused problems, but the problem is usually more complicated than simply making new animations.

With games a big as they are nowadays, and designed to run on the PC (the mother of all gaming platforms) and to a lesser extent, the so-called "next gen" Xbox 360 and PS3, I don't feel that it's an unreasonable expectation for there to be more than one pre-scripted casting animation, and especially more than three randomly cycling attack animations per weapon.

I'm not even going to point out other games here, as its moot, but yes, others have larger pools and a game designed for a 2010 release from a highly successful and wealthy company shouldn't have problems with something like that.

Just sayin'.

[Kaylia]

You took a guess, but SE might've had something else in mind at first. Maybe they had planned a solution for the limitations, but it ended up not working as intended. We don't know. It might be obvious that you can only have 80+80 inventory at once, but you can work around the issue. It could have been the same case here.



Define "minigame within a game". Basically everything we do in-game is just a minigame within the game. What makes the minigame more than a minigame are the rewards that you get. If you add worthwhile rewards to Ballista, it stops being a minigame. Design wise, SE has probably put just as much work to that "minigame" as to other "minigames" like limbus, ENM's and so on. When there's no reward to go after you don't expect same kind of balance. As soon as there's a worthwhile reward though..

If they had something else in mind, I can tell you they are stupid, and deserve every critics. Movement in the games (client side, lag) can't really allow anything else. The absence of interface prevent also prevent them from doing anything that isn't controlled with a text menu and or basic control scheme.

I will tell you how it went, because that's what happen 99% when something fails in programming


Public relation: We have gathered information from a poll that players would really like to see chocobo racing.
Programmer: But it won't be possible becau...
Public relation: And people liked FFVII casino, so we want a gambling system as well
Programmer: The current state of our engine pre...
Public relation: We will need it for next update. Good luck.


FFXI has been running on hype for a while now, and chance that something like this happened is high. I get the feeling they care more about what the game would look like to someone who isn't playing than someone who play the game.




If something is truly fun, people will do it. A minigame would be something that can stand on its own as a "fun" game, but isnt unrelated to the main gameplay.

With games a big as they are nowadays, and designed to run on the PC (the mother of all gaming platforms) and to a lesser extent, the so-called "next gen" Xbox 360 and PS3, I don't feel that it's an unreasonable expectation for there to be more than one pre-scripted casting animation, and especially more than three randomly cycling attack animations per weapon.

I'm not even going to point out other games here, as its moot, but yes, others have larger pools and a game designed for a 2010 release from a highly successful and wealthy company shouldn't have problems with something like that.

Well, FFXI had more than a single animation, there was one for every type of magic.

While it's true technology is better, everything also require more power from the computer. I have no clue what kind of constraints they are dealing with, but there is only so many things they can add before it start making the console lags.

[Siatdiat]

If something is truly fun, people will do it. a minigame would be something that can stand on its own as a "fun" game.

I basically said the same thing in another thread but people couldnt catch on to it.

If its not enjoyable, dont play it. Otherwise, if you like to work for fun at something you dont even like then get a job so at least you have money to show for it.

[Lucavi]

Well, FFXI had more than a single animation, there was one for every type of magic.

While it's true technology is better, everything also require more power from the computer. I have no clue what kind of constraints they are dealing with, but there is only so many things they can add before it start making the console lags.

Your first point makes me wonder if SE's going to continue with the FF12/FFA:2 method of introducing green magic and such. If they do, I'd be satisfied simply if each school received a different animation for magic. FFIX only had 2: one for healing/buffing and one for nuking/enfeebling, with blue magic coming later. An animation for white, black, green, time, and blue would satisfy me.

Your second point simply reinforces the fact that graphically-intensive, future-proof MMOs should be PC-only. There's no way you can future-proof a MMO on a console unless you release said MMO early in the life cycle of a console (which FFXIV is not doing), thus allowing the devs to upgrade the graphics as they learn more about how to play with the console, AND unless the MMO is wildly successful so that the devs have the capital and incentives to upgrade the graphics and animation quality.

Its no secret that FFXI was limited by the consoles. The only strength in releasing it to the console was to hit a wider target market (the JP market, mainly), but even then, the MMO only topped off at 500k. Warhammer was PC-onry and hit 800k within the first month, and then died horribly in a hilarious floundering of potential.

Its just a shame that so many of these PC-only MMOs seem to love using dated graphics engines (like Mortal Online and all of Cryptic's games). I'm waiting for a developer with huge capital reserves to just go balls-out and make a juggernaut MMO on the PC.

[firewing]

I feel jipped with the tokyo only vannafest. I wish they'd at least do a ffxiv launch fest back in the states.

[Kaylia]

Ninjutsu, summoning and blue magic also had their animation, no?

Your second point simply reinforces the fact that graphically-intensive, future-proof MMOs should be PC-only. There's no way you can future-proof a MMO on a console unless you release said MMO early in the life cycle of a console (which FFXIV is not doing), thus allowing the devs to upgrade the graphics as they learn more about how to play with the console, AND unless the MMO is wildly successful so that the devs have the capital and incentives to upgrade the graphics and animation quality.

I sincerely doubt FFXIV will ever be as limited as FFXI by their respective console. It should be a lot more easier to "update" as they progress (mostly because the ps2 wasn't built like a pc, unlike the recent console).


Now for the graphics...it's probably going to be limited, but it always depend how much they use from the start, and how far they can push it. That said, you probably won't see graphic update like Aion or WoW.

[Beave]

I think you're up to 2,000 posts in this thread alone Kaylia!

P.S. Hope school is going well and stuffs! (p'-')p/

[Tulun]

Ps3 is definitely not as limited as a PS2. Hell, even based on hard drive space alone, you can pretty much indefinitely upgrade a PS3 (wasn't the old ps2 hard drive 8 or 16 gigs at most?). And the PS3 definitely has plenty of power; you can make a lot of good looking games on it.

But yeah, PC only would allow more flexibility for graphics update and such but I don't think we really need to be as worried as we were with the PS2 limitation.

[Vacht]

I think it was the processing power that was the issue with PS2, i couldnt imagine it being the harddrive. The harddrive was 40gigs, and the game only took up roughly 10 of that. It didnt seem like an issue having different files on hand, just processing them.

Although... im talking out my ass, i dont know anything bout puters anymore.

[Destinye]

Main issue with the PS2 and MMORPGs and hell many regular games is memory above all.

[Lucavi]

Ninjutsu, summoning and blue magic also had their animation, no?



I sincerely doubt FFXIV will ever be as limited as FFXI by their respective console. It should be a lot more easier to "update" as they progress (mostly because the ps2 wasn't built like a pc, unlike the recent console).


Now for the graphics...it's probably going to be limited, but it always depend how much they use from the start, and how far they can push it. That said, you probably won't see graphic update like Aion or WoW.

Yeah, I included blue magic in there, but forgot about ninjutsu, and summoning.

I'm not so worried about graphical enhancements along the way, as even FF did a good job of advancing in certain areas. I remember marveling at how well they did the skies in TOAU, as well as the thick brush in the outside areas, to name a few.

I'm more worried about the dumbing down of the initial product and the original programming of the source code. We all love to talk about SE's spagetti code, and that's what bottlenecks a lot of actual advancements in the graphics department, not to mention all the other problems. Even when they eventually bump up to DX10 and DX11, without a firm code base, many of the limitations are going to repeat themselves, especially when SE in the past has stated that they didn't like the idea of buffing the PC graphics while having to leave the consoles in the dust.

Designing a MMO strictly for the PC largely allows you to bypass those limitations, as we all know that PCs are constantly becoming stronger, as opposed to the finite lifespan of consoles.

[Tulun]

Main issue with the PS2 and MMORPGs and hell many regular games is memory above all.

It will hold it back less... I mean we are starting to see stuff like 256 FPS combats (which I assume takes up enough processing power)

I think PC only would be better as the option to upgrade is pretty simple and they could always do graphics changes at will... but at the very least, the PS3 has enough power that the limitations won't be as apparent.

[miokomioko]

Just remember that a Playstation 3 will outperform most PCs for quite a while.

[arus2001]

Yeah, I don't really think the PS3's a bottleneck this go around. 360 may be the wildcard, but I'm sure Gates will piss out the 720 by then, complete with RRoD.

[Kaylia]

If there is a bottleneck, it will be for the graphic only, and they can easily be tuned down for the consoles. Most "ps2 limitation" annoyance were for stuff other than the graphic.

[Lucavi]

I'm more concerned with the company using those excuses than for the excuses themselves, but I'll try to share your positivity.

[Hyan]

I'm more concerned with the company using those excuses than for the excuses themselves, but I'll try to share your positivity.

Why does that matter?