Obama is just as corrupt as any other president before him

[Octavious]

Ugh, i conservatives spent half the effort they put into bitching about Obama (and losing the election in general) they wouldn't be losing support. Seriously, Obama isn't perfect, not even close. If you want to argue, gripe at his policy. In the end people just look foolish arguing against the man and not the policy. I've been enjoying the Daily Show more and more lately as Stewart shows the hypocrisy of the majority of the republican party. Last nights portion with Glenn Beck was priceless.

tl;dr -> Obama's president, bitch at his policy decisions if you want. In the end deal with it because he's there for 3 more years at minimum and 4 years of this shit will get annoying pretty damn fast. Shit, if people are still spouting off about a birth certificate in 2010 i'm swearing off politics all together.

[Rhinox]

Inb4

hello mr quote train. I see you like to use quotes. quote me some more

[Kuya]

Kuya you missed the entire point. I wasn't trying to refute anything you said. I was pointing out that the man had relevant job experience. And so did you.

Oh, i missed the point. You replied to a post with information that had nothing to do with the point of the post you replied to. Thanks for wasting my time.

edit: Please, never reply to me again. I'd like to avoid wasting time with your kind.

[Suburbanelite]

It's fun to argue about politics when there's nothing else to do, apparently.

[Demosthenes11]

ITT: Criticizing obama = terrorism

[Beckwin]

ITT: Obama not being able to flip the utopia switch on the entire government and political process within 6 months = totally corrupt scumbag on the level of Bush, Nixon, and Harding (COMBINED)

on a slightly more serious note, what will the "lolchange" crowd say when the healthcare program is passed?

[Cyn]

ITT: Obama not being able to flip the utopia switch on the entire government and political process within 6 months = totally corrupt scumbag on the level of Bush, Nixon, and Harding (COMBINED)

on a slightly more serious note, what will the "lolchange" crowd say when the healthcare program is passed?

He promised me a utopia switch.

[thebearofscience]

I'm surprised leaf, or leef, or leeph or however you spell his name hasn't showed.

[Senoska]

He will.

[Kuya]

Why are some people here saying that doing the exact opposite of what he said he would do is him not delivering on change? He didn't just not do something, he went and did the opposite. Are some of you insane or something? How can you even be so nonchalant about the fact that he promised transperency and then goes and supports the states secrets argument for both keeping photos a secret and blocking investigations into illegal wiretapping, no to mention the invocation of "state supremacy".

Oh, did i mention his administration's rejection of habeas corpus for prisoners in Bagram? How do you reconcile that? It's not just him not delivering on his CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN, it's him doing the exact opposite of what he said he would do.

[Olo401]

Oh, i missed the point. You replied to a post with information that had nothing to do with the point of the post you replied to. Thanks for wasting my time.

edit: Please, never reply to me again. I'd like to avoid wasting time with your kind.

Well fuck you too, good sir.

[Beckwin]

I hate to say it, but welcome to politics, kuya.

It certainly is frustrating. I don't like everything Obama has done.

But we're still seeing changes. I personally think it's most appropriate to look at the sum of things, and try to evaluate net improvements. Have we made some ground on improving vehicle fuel efficiency? Have we closed gitmo and started some trials? Are we seeing a government healthcare bill with a legitimate chance of being passed? Have we started, even in some small way, to change some of our diplomatic relationships and general image in the world? Are we starting to see job losses being curbed? Something > nothing. Speculate about what the outcome from the alternative administration would be if you must. And keep in mind that it's only 6 months in.

Of course it's fucking frustrating that gays aren't marrying, that the war on terror isn't completely shut down, that you or I can't walk into any federal building and have access to any documents we'd like, that pot isn't legal, and that we already don't have a single-payer healthcare system.

But that doesn't change the reality of our current political structure and the catch-22 it entails. Stick to your ethical/philosophical guns, and watch the other party take aim at your head while your blue dogs stab you in the back. Kiss 2010 and 2012 goodbye. Make compromises/flat out give in on certain issues so that you can advance part of your agenda for some sort of net gain, and you've betrayed what you promised your more ardent supporters.

the left needs more new blood that can and realistically has a shot to replace the old. otherwise Obama, or anyone, cannot afford to take a stand and flip that switch, at this point.

[ZarakiKujata]

Fuck me. We need some George Washington clones to run the country indefinitely.

Moar like hybrid TR/FDR, Lincoln, LBJ doodz.

[Kuya]

Beckwin, did you just brush off the rejection of habeas corpus rights as "something"?

You know what, instead of talking with empty rhetoric, why don't you tell me what specifically is that prevents president Obama from granting the same habeas corpus rights from Guantanamo, to Bagram, as judges say he must. Show me that you understand the issue at hand and aren't just talking out of your ass.

What are the mechanisms, be specific, that prevent this president from allowing habeas corpus in Bagram?

[Beckwin]

kuya did you just respond with nothing but a strawman that completely and obviously eschews what I was talking about when I used the word "something"?

but anyway, simple question, do you feel the current healthcare proposal is worth supporting? Not Obama, not the administration, not the democratic party, but just the proposal.

[Kuya]

Ignored the question. I figured as much. Anyone here able to name what specific causes prevents this president from allowing habeas corpus in Bagram? Specific organizations with great political claut, constitutional mechanisms that prevent his action, something that you can use to place blame somewhere other than the fact that he picked hawks for his cabinet?

I really want to know what amazing force of nature is that prevents Obama from NOT interfering with the courts, and allowing habeas corpus, as the courts have judge, to extend to Bagram. I really, really, want to know what this amazing, and hopefully well studied excuse is.

[Beckwin]

It certainly is frustrating. I don't like everything Obama has done.

You're acting like I don't agree with you about Bagram being wrong. What prevents him from doing so? At most, pressure from the military and yes, the hawks he appointed to attempt to build support from the right. Yes, it's still shitty no matter how you slice it.

Done?

[Kuya]

So what you're saying is, the president can't contradict his appointees. Or even military officials... unlike Bush who sacked military officials for contradicting his easy win in Iraq scenario.

[Beckwin]

No, I'm not saying that at all. Which is why I qualified with "at most" and expressed how I still feel it's shitty that the Bagram situation is what it is.

Now stop trying to put words in my mouth, and perhaps answer my question about the healthcare proposal.

[Demosthenes11]

as an electorate I think it's sad when we decide "something" is good enough